Your concerns are very correct but while you are willing to give him/her the benefit of the doubt, I am very very skeptical of their story; it sounds "too pat" and made up. If you look at their other replies there are too many incongruities and "movie plot tropes".
I have a better chance of winning the lottery than "learning mathematics starting from long division and progressing to a good job in the current hot market of AI/ML while working at Home Depot, sleeping on a air mattress, with almost no money and a dysfunctional family, studying at coffee shops and rising through a bunch of roles starting from lowly corporate IT into high-paying data science/ML and leading teams". It is all just a bit too much and beggars belief.
Also speaking from my own experience, early in my career for about 3-4 years i lived alone, working a software engineer job by day and attending a computer science course/labs in evening/weekends. The lack of proper sleep/rest/nutrition, constant stress due to work and studies almost broke me. Thankfully i managed to get through that (mainly due to my robust health) but it made me realize that if you don't have a supporting family, proper nutrition/sleep and some sort of support system (i.e. family/friends) to encourage/emphathize/push/pull you as needed there is no way for an average person to overcome all hurdles particularly when they come at you all at once. There is a reason it is impossible to get out of poverty just based on your own efforts without somebody external actively lending you a helping hand via money/opportunity etc.
As the saying goes; "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_claims_require_e...
I went to college but I resent the implication that the only way to make it into one of these fields is through college. It is incredibly difficult to learn advanced math outside of an academic setting, but it is absolutely possible.
Where I work we have invested in programs that take people just like me and give them an opportunity to go through a pretty rigorous 6 month program that teaches them how to develop software, work in a corporate environment, etc.
There are people FAR more impressive than me who have done more with less, and when they have come out of that program many have been able to go toe to toe with our college grads.
We’ve got a LOT of people who have similar stories, and we’re doing the same thing in accounting now. And it works.
This is just a generic platitude and means nothing. Lots of people have overcome hurdles yes but not a whole lot of hurdles all at the same and over long periods of time which is what i gathered from your posts. Also as i point out it is quite hard to overcome all hurdles just by one's own efforts but you generally need some outside help whether intentional or luck.
> I went to college but I resent the implication that the only way to make it into one of these fields is through college.
You had mentioned that you were a high-school dropout earlier but are here stating that you went to college? That is a huge discrepancy and if true proves my point.
>It is incredibly difficult to learn advanced math outside of an academic setting, but it is absolutely possible.
That depends on where you are starting from, your support environment and your definition of "advanced math". For some levels you have to go to academia and study. Not everything is possible in the real world.
> Where I work we have invested in programs that take people just like me and give them an opportunity to go through a pretty rigorous 6 month program that teaches them how to develop software, work in a corporate environment, etc.
This just proves my point that you generally need outside support/help/luck to overcome really difficult hurdles. You are providing them with a break.
> There are people FAR more impressive than me who have done more with less, and when they have come out of that program many have been able to go toe to toe with our college grads.
That depends on the nature of the work itself. If it is just a matter of simple programming then maybe so but if the work needs advanced mathematics/statistical knowledge there is no way this can happen. There is a reason Colleges/Universities exist.
You didn’t bother to read it before commenting because you were too busy dumping on something that didn’t match your bias, which is wrong and incredibly depressing, by the way.
And of course you need outside help/luck/support, but you’re pretending their is some binary threshold and then cherry picking from an imaginary slate of deceptions that you’ve accused me of, to imply I was too lucky or received too much encouragement. Those factors are a continuum and I received more than some and less than others; of course I’m lucky.
I’m sorry that you do not have faith in people to succeed, but I have plenty of examples. I am sitting across from an architect I work with who is also a dropout (who finds this amusing) and work with plenty of others who made the leap. I’m also sorry that you feel you have to try and tear others down to reaffirm your depressing world view.
Anyway I wouldn't waste your time too much with GP. They won't believe anything you say without you actually providing physical proof of some sort - and even then I'm sure they'd try and poke holes in it.
Oh well. I for one am glad to hear how much better things are for you, and wish you luck in the future :)
I actually went and got my college transcripts and requested my highschool ones but it’s not worth it. I’ll probably just use them if I make a blog post or something.
I sincerely appreciate your encouragement and wish you luck as well!
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40462419
> You didn’t bother to read it before commenting because you were too busy dumping on something that didn’t match your bias, which is wrong and incredibly depressing, by the way.
I don't have a depressing world view but a realistic one because of overcoming some hurdles in my own life and coming from a country where people overcoming hurdles is rather common (India with its huge population, economic mobility necessity etc.). But in every case (including mine) there is always one or more factors which made or broke them. Thus for example, a poor farmer's child becomes a ceo/doctor/engineer/etc. because the family sold the land to fund the child's education while the father/mother became daily wage labourers to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. The child's achievement while impressive would be impossible without the family's sacrifice. Should he/she omit it from the narrative of their achievements?
> And of course you need outside help/luck/support, but you’re pretending their is some binary threshold and then cherry picking from an imaginary slate of deceptions that you’ve accused me of, to imply I was too lucky or received too much encouragement. Those factors are a continuum and I received more than some and less than others; of course I’m lucky.
No man makes opportunity or luck or can overcome all adverse circumstances. The best he can do is be well prepared by his own efforts (and with some external help) to recognize opportunity when it comes and grab it with both hands. While opportunity can be binary sometimes you can backtrack and get a second-chance. There are plenty of people who never got the opportunity and hence could never make it. The external factor is not an addon, it is essential to success/failure and should never be discounted.
> Im sorry that you do not have faith in people to succeed, but I have plenty of examples. I am sitting across from an architect I work with who is also a dropout (who finds this amusing) and work with plenty of others who made the leap. I’m also sorry that you feel you have to try and tear others down to reaffirm your depressing world view.
You started this conversation with me and hence i am defending my views and not trying to tear you down or anybody else. I just dislike "toxic positivity"/"false advertisements" which is rampant in our society to the detriment of helping deserving people. In the context of this thread, your posts came across as "i did Khan Academy while overcoming a lot of hurdles by myself which led me to what i am today" which is of course untenable IMO.
What exactly is the discrepancy here? One can drop out of highschool, then years later, take the necessary tests, then go to college. Again, many people have done that. Is that really so hard for you to believe?
You have conveniently glossed over events in those missing years. Did they get proper stable environment to live in, did they get enough food to eat, did they have somebody encouraging them to go to college etc. Events in those intervening years are what breaks you down or builds you up enabling you to go to college or not. In a sequence of events you cannot omit some and highlight some according to your disposition. That is called "false advertisement".
I may post my transcripts and khan academy badges to twitter later. My LinkedIn is pretty easy to find. I’ve still got my Home Depot aprons too.
Maybe if they believe this is possible they will believe it is worth spending time investing in others. My story is not unique.
Sadly, I threw away the air mattress long ago, so won’t be able to post that.
100% what you said about being young with nothing to lose. I had been part of a "start up" so I had equity on paper, but debt in real life. That equity ended up being worth exactly what I had paid for it ($0). I worked at Home Depot (which was a great company) and basically anything was better than making $15/hr and treading water.
For what it is worth, at the time I (24) felt really old because I saw so many 21 year olds who would come in to the store and had houses and everything that I didn't. I felt like I had missed the boat. It's been over 10 years and I realize how young I was, and frankly still am.
My point is that it's never too late to try something different, especially if you are starting from a position of strength (a good career in a field that requires strong problem solving skills, like software engineering).
I don’t doubt that it’s true in OC’s case. But I don’t think it’s representative of the impact of technology. It’s the example that will get Bill Gates’ attention and end up on the stage at TED, but it might not be representative of 90% of how people are affected by technology. It might, and the story of how videos will change how people relate to each other (what made Chris Anderson buy TED, what Salman Khan has built, what Grant Sanderson a.k.a, 3blue1brown has done). It is true, anecdotally. It is a fantastic, compelling, clear story. I love that story: video is the easiest way to share any practice; people watch, learn, practice, and get good at something no one in their village knew was possible. Hurray.
But when I trained as a statistician, i.e., epistemologically someone working for the state, I was told I was the opposite of a journalist: my job is not to tell stories that explain what a problem is. My job is to tell the boss how common that story really is. A story tells all the details to pull your emotions, and journalists (at the time, at least) were telling fact-check, double-verified stories. “Truth” wasn’t our goal. It is too easy to get numbers that argue for any position. Representative was what we were told we should be aiming for—so that the government makes the right decision.
I’m not seeing a lot of “representative” here.