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Re:Deutsche Bahn Introduces "MetaWindow" by atoav on Friday May 17, 2024 @03:21AM (#40387306)
As someone with an art degree (with no great admiration for street art per sé) I have to ask one question:

Could you imagine that one person's "defaced" is another person's "finally some colors"?

The destruction of property, trespassing etc. is obviously on the wrong side of the law, but on purely aesthetical terms this could be argued either way making it for that narrow category a subjective thing. Proponents of graffiti could argue you cannot deface a faceless thing, opponents would argue they like their lawn short, their fence white, the sky blue. One persons order is another persons prison.

Note that I tried to look at the aesthetic question while ignoring the legal question — mainly because you made an aesthetic argument. For many people the two would be entangled however: Something being illegal makes them look at the result unfavourable, even if a similar legal wall mural would strike them as aesthetically superior to the 10 years weathered white wall that it was before.

As an art person I really see truly good graffiti, yet I have to notice that heavily graffitied parts of my city are tourist magnets — so many people tend to like those "defaced" walls.

Re:Deutsche Bahn Introduces "MetaWindow" by soco on Friday May 17, 2024 @03:46AM (#40387450)
Let's be honest, 99.999% of graffiti is smeared black lines barely recognizable as tags, over more smeared tags and curse words and just dirt. If that is aesthetic, we might have a very different definition of aesthetic than the art schools you mention. Do I see sometimes street art? Yes, but almost never on such places - the real street art is one done on commission (I assume) on some private house walls, while the rest is at best ignored. There's a reason you never see trains stations on Instagram.
Re:Deutsche Bahn Introduces "MetaWindow" by carlosjobim on Friday May 17, 2024 @07:40AM (#40388801)
There is a word missing in the English language that confuses this discussion. Graffiti has come to mean air brush, whether it's art or vandalism. Other languages have separate words for these things.
Re:Deutsche Bahn Introduces "MetaWindow" by atoav on Sunday May 19, 2024 @06:46AM (#40405933)
I am not sure what you think the word aesthetic means. Aesthetic as a concept is about the style and the visual makeup of a thing — this means the aesthetic of a thing can also be ugly, dirty, distorted, weird, childish, funny, fucked up, silly, as many things in the canon of art history have been. Aesthetic as an adjective as it is used in daily life is somewhat linked to the idea of beauty, but the ideas of what is beautiful vary wildy not only throughout history, but between individuals as well. But I did not use the latter. Everything has an aesthetic. Yeah even cheap, consumerist, trash nobody seems to like.

I am not arguing I personally think tag smeared walls are aesthetical, but I argue that there are people who do indeed do. But most noise-protection-wall-graffiti where I live isn't tagged smearing. If we go by area easily 80% are big colorful motives.

Having known people who do these things I also know that for them the "where" is sometimes more important than the precise what and while the aesthetics won't convince me personally I can't say that I never asked myself the question: "How the hell did they manage to paint this thing in that location?"

And I don't see train stations on instagram, because I don't follow people who post them. But I also don't see couples posting their vacation photos or influencers selfies for the same reason. If I did follow them I would see them.

Re:Deutsche Bahn Introduces "MetaWindow" by wiseowise on Friday May 17, 2024 @04:55AM (#40387803)
That's easy:

Was the graffiti made with approval of the owner of the building? Does it fit general aesthetics of the city? Yes and yes - it's finally some colors. Otherwise it's a vandalism.

If it's a public building - it's vandalism, unless it was decided by all people living there.

> As an art person I really see truly good graffiti, yet I have to notice that heavily graffitied parts of my city are tourist magnets — so many people tend to like those "defaced" walls.

Yeah, way to make life hell for residents of the neighborhood.

Re:Deutsche Bahn Introduces "MetaWindow" by kalaksi on Friday May 17, 2024 @05:41AM (#40388088)
Many cities here also have walls dedicated for graffiti and such to give street artists some space and bring some color. Some small infra-related buildings also have street art done on commission and they look great! But shitty tags and graffitis still exist and my impression has always been that the maker probably wasn't thinking about art or anything deeper for that matter...
Re:Deutsche Bahn Introduces "MetaWindow" by constantcrying on Friday May 17, 2024 @06:57AM (#40388515)
>Could you imagine that one person's "defaced" is another person's "finally some colors"?

No. The graffiti I have seen in my life was clearly put there as narcissistic self expression by (usually criminal, if only by trespassing) youths, very rarely I have seen something which comes close to presenting an attempt at improving the environment.

I grant you that I can emphazwith the idea of clearing withering concrete slab with anything at all. But the few times I have seen it be an improvement were when it was a commissioned piece. But even then it was a small improvement at best.