Yes businesses are in the business of making money. Apple is a business. The hope for you (a consumer) is that your needs and theirs are aligned sufficiently well that they solve problems you benefit from while minimizing how much they exploit you. It’s capitalism.

Accurate. Businesses that show consistent good will towards their users often just haven't become successful enough to afford to exploit you yet. Pointing out that Apple only really cares about extracting your money is mostly an admission that they've found we will let them do it.

Or, Apple gives you your time back, and for that, you are happy to trade a bit more money and a lot less time, to be a customer.

Apple makes hardware enabled platform experiences for end users who don't want to tweak and people who value their own time more than money. That's a big reason Apple causes so much resentment -- not everyone can value time over money.

It's also resented by devs who don't understand or value what a hardware enabled platform experience for end users can mean to their income if they grok it.

Or, the two things we’ve said about Apple aren’t mutually exclusive. I’m talking about how they behave, you’re talking about the philosophy for the products they create. I like and consume Apple products too, and my willingness to buy their updated model every few years is how they know they have me right where they want me.

> That's a big reason Apple causes so much resentment -- not everyone can value time over money.

Is it? I have been buying apple products for over 20 years now, and like most people here make a lot more money than the people who behold an iPhone as a status symbol lol.

I still see Apple's desire to get a kickback for every transaction on an iPhone nefarious nickel and diming, and I see their "ecosystem" as deliberate vendor lock-in - and I think that "ecosystem" actually holds Apple's OSes back in terms of innovation.

I regularly disagree with Apple's choices. Not all of em? I was ok with the vision pro - not buying one, but sometimes you need to experiment with things like that. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I have to all-or-nothing it.

Per all the smug "just get an android phone" comments, I DID. I have a galaxy fold 4 and an iPhone 13 sitting on my desk. Yea, I can afford to do silly stuff like that, and I'm a goofy nerd that likes trying different things. I don't have a steadfast attachment to one platform - another reason I find the "ecosystem" stuff obnoxious.

What Apple's done is also violating antitrust laws, which has gotten them in trouble with the DOJ recently. And it's about time. They are a business, but an abusive anti-competitive one that has serious lock-in that bars competitors from their platform for no good reason other than to make even more money. They also forbid some apps because Apple releases something similar, and they don't want any competition. If they did allow competition they might not have made so much money, but they also wouldn't be the subject of major lawsuits in the US and in the EU.

Um, there’s something called Android. No need to be on the Apple platform at all. You can switch to it if you’d like. When I walk into a Tesla dealership I don’t expect to be able to buy a Chevrolet.

Um, whataboutism isn't a valid defense with the DOJ. Go read the many counts the DOJ is suing Apple for. It's extensive and points to a systemic problem at Apple stifling competition in many ways. Microsoft lost their antitrust case and they weren't doing 1/2 the shady stuff Apple is doing.

You’re right. They make Android bubbles green. The horror.

They also forbid competition in many ways - forcing Safari browser no matter what browser you install, Chrome is Safari, Firefox is Safari, Opera is Safari. That's far worse than what Microsoft did to get sued by simply bundling IE with Windows. No, Apple forbids any other browser but their browser, and this is done for anti-competitive reasons. That's just one example. It's a lot more than "Android bubbles green". But you're a fanboi and a troll, and you don't really care what the DOJ lawsuit says, that much is clear.

Oh go switch to Android. Until very recently, iOS had a minority share of the market and still does worldwide. It’s in no way comparable to Microsoft 25 years ago which then had an overwhelming market position. Were you one of those guys who spelled Microsoft with a ‘$’ btw?

If your only intention is to ignore reality and the DOJ lawsuit, and Apple's many anti-competitive abuses, then this conversation is over.

Neither platform is great at everything really, but being able to use ACTUAL firefox on an android phone is pretty sweet. I can use ublock origin, get firefox bookmark syncing which works with EVERY SINGLE device and computer I own! It's awesome. I love it. It also works better with 'request desktop website'.

Likewise, automatic photo syncing with onedrive works better on android than it does on iOS (although this may be a configuration thing).

But when it comes to smartwatches, I do really like my Apple Watch. The problem is, Apple Watches only work with Apple iPhones. And Apple iPhones only work really well with Apple Watches because Apple doesn't allow anyone else to do half the things that Apple iOS can do with Apple Watches. And frankly, none of those things that Apple does as "vertical integration" are special or unique - it's just obnoxious vendor lock-in. They could have made a good smartwatch API and vetted smartwatch vendors the same way they vet apps. But no. We get Apple Watches or a shit experience on 3rd party watches.

The "don't like it? buy something else" attitude is obnoxious as hell. Apple could do better with iOS (and with their Macs). I don't know why some people can't accept that.

Oh got it.

So then Apple is just as bad as the other developers, and instead users should be able to use their own property to bypass any sort of Apple fees.

Problem solved. Let the user decide if they want to refuse to pay the Apple fee, and buy on alternative app stores.