Re:Cult of the Dead Cow – Veilid
by gryfft on Friday April 26, 2024 @08:41AM
(#40168709)
The web needs more sites hosting raw .html pages formatted as plain text decorated with ASCII art with zero regard for mobile. I say this with complete sincerity.
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It's not even that much of a problem for me on mobile after zooming out just a tad. The green on black is really what makes this page for me.
No cookies, no frameworks (no JS at all really), plain unobfuscated html. Amazing!
What about accessibility?
That's what 8-bit text to speech was for, played from the PC Speaker for maximum effect. It sounded like Stephen Hawking choking on vodka, but that somehow fit the mood.
Re:Cult of the Dead Cow – Veilid
by freedomben on Friday April 26, 2024 @09:47AM
(#40169351)
> It sounded like Stephen Hawking choking on vodka
I'm probably way, way overthinking this, but this seems philosophically quite deep and interesting, much like "what is the sound of one hand clapping" (ignoring Bart Simpson's masterful destruction of the ancient question).
Looking forward to your zine publication.
Re:Cult of the Dead Cow – Veilid
by the_real_cher on Friday April 26, 2024 @09:25AM
(#40169094)
Wouldn't raw html be better for accessibility than a JS framework? Saying this as a non-front end dev.
Raw HTML: potentially. Big blocks of undifferentiated ASCII art: no.
aria-hidden=trueNot present on the page in question, though.
Re:Cult of the Dead Cow – Veilid
by ivan_gammel on Friday April 26, 2024 @09:36AM
(#40169215)
If done correctly it doesn’t matter. SSR can yield an accessible HTML page and you won’t notice the difference. Client-side JS can adapt the web site to your needs -a personalization that is hard to achieve in static.
Re:Cult of the Dead Cow – Veilid
by marcosdumay on Friday April 26, 2024 @10:20AM
(#40169800)
When was the last time... Or rather, when have you ever seen a framework-based page with accessibility done correctly?
Re:Cult of the Dead Cow – Veilid
by ivan_gammel on Friday April 26, 2024 @10:57AM
(#40170187)
I have seen many sites scoring well on various accessibility metrics. There’s no inherent technical limitation of frameworks that would make accessibility impossible, even when dealing with text to speech. We will see many more next year with EAA coming into effect (and many European companies do care about compliance).
Re:Cult of the Dead Cow – Veilid
by jilijeanlouis on Saturday April 27, 2024 @03:31AM
(#40178045)
Despite regulation I don’t Believe it will actually get implemented even governments have regulations around audio accessibility for education in particular, for years now, and still nothing moves.
Oooh good point. W3c accounts for it, and it's not that tough. Just a case of putting in the raw html:
Accessibility of this page is pretty bad as far as I can tell, but not because it's plain HTML. And if I understand correctly you can mark ASCII art as an image (role="img") with alternative text too.
Not everyone has to access everything.
Re:Cult of the Dead Cow – Veilid
by warkdarrior on Friday April 26, 2024 @09:26AM
(#40169095)
Fuck accessibility. We're hackers, if it was hard to write, it should be hard to read.
[dead]
Re:Cult of the Dead Cow – Veilid
by freedomben on Friday April 26, 2024 @09:51AM
(#40169400)
Hackers come in all ages, colors, shapes, and sizes. The ethos is one that is the very opposite of identitarianism. I would highly recommend getting to know more people in the community.
Also, I would guess that GP is making a joke based on a classic (and funny) stereotype.
Re:Cult of the Dead Cow – Veilid
by ivan_gammel on Friday April 26, 2024 @10:01AM
(#40169517)
There’s no such thing as single community of hackers with some ethos. Exactly because “identitarianism” isn’t their thing. The hats are of different colors.
GP may be making a joke, but you should read the irony in my comment too. From my experience people who disregard accessibility are often the ones who were never disadvantaged or discriminated. Hence the attributes I mentioned.
Use HTMX.
HTMX is cool but not necessary for static html pages..
I prefer to use HTMX in place of other frameworks, but if you don't need a framework at all, even better!
Sorry :(
Still waiting for an LLM to communicate exclusively in this format.
You can support mobile with ASCII art if you render at different widths and use a HTML+CSS wrapper for media-queries! I have a whole proposal about this: https://gwern.net/utext
Re:Cult of the Dead Cow – Veilid
by pyinstallwoes on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:22PM
(#40174971)
Love the thinking here. Thanks for the research and suggestions.