The plumber who works on my house is easily as smart as I am. A successful software engineering career has brought me financial independence but I'm not particularly brilliant. Most of the folks I've worked with in FAANG aren't either. We're just normal people making a living during a very lucky period for a specific type of nerd.
There are figures starting on page 80 in this document that support this claim: https://gwern.net/doc/iq/ses/2002-hauser.pdf
2. a job doesn’t necessarily pay well just because it does require a high IQ. Scientists in a research lab, professorships, academic research all likely have more intelligent people on average yet don’t pay as well as software engineering.
3. The study still shows a routine and reliable difference in average IQ between those who work in manual jobs/trades and those who work in science/engineering
Software engineering in the US is well paid, yes, partially due to economic effects and impact of software in and of itself, but it is, especially in FAANG, a profession with a very high concentration of people near the higher end of normal and above in the IQ spectrum, which leads to implicit selection criteria regarding intellectual capacities in employment.
In any event there is more recent data (1992-4) that confirms that the differential is still present. This is maybe unpleasant to confront because it's self-congratulatory and has obvious class implications, but it's also pretty obviously true.
See page 89 / figure 12:
https://users.ssc.wisc.edu/~hauser/merit_01_081502_complete....
And not be called in the middle of the night to fix broken stuff?
That last item might not apply so well to plumbers specifically ("my shitter broke!"), but it does to most other trades. :)
That is wildly incorrect.
This kind of snobbery toward the skilled trades needs to stop.
Edit:
https://quizlet.com/test/journeymans-plumbing-practice-test-...
A person with an IQ of 80 is not going to pass that test. He might get a job as a gofer, cleaner, general dogsbody, and "dude who has to carry all the heavy shit" for a plumbing contractor, but that doesn't make him a plumber.
Look at the chart on page 85
An IQ of around 80 or a little more is around the 25th percentile for a large portion of trades jobs.
There again, you (and they) are making the mistake of lumping all of "those people" together.
Someone with an IQ of 80 could probably be a decent drywaller or roofer, maybe a mediocre framing carpenter or painter.
A good plumber or good electrician?
Not a chance in hell.
Uh, what? I was with you until that part. Coding pays so well because the operating costs are low and the returns/profits are enormous for companies. Tech companies are "cheap" in a way other companies can't be. IQ doesn't really have much to do with it. I know plumbers who are technically brilliant and I know very well paid coders who regularly say things that make me question their intelligence.
Unrelated. Coding pays well because of the tight labor supply compared to the demand. Companies NEVER direct excess value to labor. Extracting surplus value from labor is sorta the whole deal with capitalism.
> I know plumbers who are technically brilliant
Also not relevant. The argument is that it isn't necessary to be brilliant in order to be a competent plumber, not that it would actually preclude you.
> I know very well paid coders who regularly say things that make me question their intelligence.
Do you think that's actually a good measure of intelligence? How are you normalizing it against the population, people you don't work with, and/or plumbers generally?
The question to ask is, "taking a random sample of persons having 80 IQ, half of whom intend to pursue a career in software and half who intend to pursue a career in plumbing, what is the relative success rate (for some reasonable measure of 'success')?"
Most of the work we do is mundane. Lets not be dishonest.
You will be in a world of shit.
The US Army currently rejects applicants who score lower than 31 on the ASVAB (roughly 92 on the IQ scale, about 30th percentile). I’m pretty sure there are Army jobs that can be done with less need for intellect than that needed to be a plumber.
I don’t think that the lowest 10% of the population is generally capable of being a plumber. They are capable of doing some of the work done by plumbing companies, but the plumbing code is lengthy, in large part because people’s lives are literally at stake and the actual plumber (the license-holder) has to keep that straight in their head, apply the relevant parts to the varied job site requirements, turn blueprints into working plumbing systems, etc.
Plumbing is a lot more than remembering “shit flows downhill, don’t lick your fingers, Friday is payday.”
Sample plumber exam: https://www.tests.com/practice/plumbing-practice-test
Pretty rich by someone with a comment history littered with AI delusions:
> AI will largely replace software developers very soon, along with most professions.*
That doesn't strike me as a very intelligent take.
My opinion is also shared by a lot of intelligent researchers (like Hinton). Is he deluded, as you put it?
No, they aren't.
> Is he deluded, as you put it?
I don't know what each for your apostles has said. But anyone who claims that with just a hyped up LLM behind them is.
The reason why coding pays so well is because it's IQ-gated in a way that plumbing isn't. An 80 IQ person can be a competent plumber but couldn't do well in most coding jobs.