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Re:Meta Llama 3 by a_wild_dandan on Thursday April 18, 2024 @04:05PM (#40080168)
Also, being open source adds phenomenal value for Meta:

1. It attracts the world's best academic talent, who deeply want their work shared. AI experts can join any company, so ones which commit to open AI have a huge advantage.

2. Having armies of SWEs contributing millions of free labor hours to test/fix/improve/expand your stuff is incredible.

3. The industry standardizes around their tech, driving down costs and dramatically improving compatibility/extensibility.

4. It creates immense goodwill with basically everyone.

5. Having open AI doesn't hurt their core business. If you're an AI company, giving away your only product isn't tenable (so far).

If Meta's 405B model surpasses GPT-4 and Claude Opus as they expect, they release it for free, and (predictably) nothing awful happens -- just incredible unlocks for regular people like Llama 2 -- it'll make much of the industry look like complete clowns. Hiding their models with some pretext about safety, the alarmist alignment rhetoric, will crumble. Like...no, you zealously guard your models because you want to make money, and that's fine. But using some holier-than-thou "it's for your own good" public gaslighting is wildly inappropriate, paternalistic, and condescending.

The 405B model will be an enormous middle finger to companies who literally won't even tell you how big their models are (because "safety", I guess). Here's a model better than all of yours, it's open for everyone to benefit from, and it didn't end the world. So go &%$# yourselves.

Re:Meta Llama 3 by jdminhbg on Thursday April 18, 2024 @04:19PM (#40080289)
Commoditize Your Complements: https://gwern.net/complement
Re:Meta Llama 3 by littlestymaar on Saturday April 20, 2024 @02:41AM (#40095344)
No need to quote the arrogant clown on that one, Spolski coined the concept:

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/06/12/strategy-letter-v/

Re:Meta Llama 3 by eigenvalue on Thursday April 18, 2024 @04:17PM (#40080267)
Yes, I completely agree with every point you made. It’s going to be so satisfying when all the AI safety people realize that their attempts to cram this protectionist/alarmist control down our throats are all for nothing, because there is an even stronger model that is totally open weights, and you can never put the genie back in the bottle!
Re:Meta Llama 3 by aqfamnzc on Friday April 19, 2024 @12:04AM (#40083329)
Hopefully they aren't able to cram it down our legislators' throats... Seems that's what really matters
Re:Meta Llama 3 by ben_w on Friday April 19, 2024 @02:28AM (#40083959)
> you can never put the genie back in the bottle

That's specifically why OpenAI don't release weights, and why everyone who cares about safety talks about laws, and why Yud says the laws only matter if you're willing to enforce them internationally via air strikes.

> It’s going to be so satisfying

I won't be feeling Schadenfreude if a low budget group or individual takes an open weights model, does a white-box analysis to determine what it knows and to overcome any RLFH, in order to force it to work as an assistant helping walk them though the steps to make VX nerve agent.

Given how old VX is, it's fairly likely all the info is on the public internet already, but even just LLMs-as-a-better-search / knowledge synthesis from disparate sources, that makes a difference, especially for domain specific "common sense": You don't need to know what to ask for, you can ask a model to ask itself a better question first.

Re:Meta Llama 3 by zzzzzzzzzz10 on Friday April 19, 2024 @05:08AM (#40084691)
If some unhinged psycho want to build nerve agents and bombs I think it's laughable to believe an LLM will be the tool that makes a difference in enabling them to do so.

As you said the information is already out there - getting info on how to do this stuff is not the barrier you think it is.

Re:Meta Llama 3 by ben_w on Friday April 19, 2024 @05:20AM (#40084728)
> I think it's laughable to believe an LLM will be the tool that makes a difference

If you think it's "laughable", what do you think tools are for? Every tool makes some difference, that's why they get used.

The better models are already at the level of a (free) everything-intern, and it's very easy to use them for high-level control of robotics.

> getting info on how to do this stuff is not the barrier you think it is.

Knowing what question you need to ask in order to not kill oneself in the process, however, is.

Secondary school chemistry lessons taught me two distinct ways to make chlorine using only things found in a normal kitchen; but the were taught in the context "don't do X or Y, that makes chlorine", not "here's some PPE, let's get to work".

Re:Meta Llama 3 by abxytg on Friday April 19, 2024 @10:30AM (#40087280)
Uh oh -- we should ban this secondary school thing
Re:Meta Llama 3 by ben_w on Friday April 19, 2024 @02:44PM (#40090568)
Interesting thing I've heard about humans, very bad at noticing conjunctions such as "but".

Wonder if it's true?

Re:Meta Llama 3 by chasd00 on Friday April 19, 2024 @12:51PM (#40089089)
when all you want is to hurt then every tool looks like a weapon.
Re:Meta Llama 3 by nmklnlknklnlk on Thursday April 18, 2024 @05:11PM (#40080766)
OpenAI engineers don't work for free. Facebook subsidizes their engineers because they have $20B. OpenAI doesn't have that luxury.
Re:Meta Llama 3 by papichulo2023 on Thursday April 18, 2024 @06:15PM (#40081332)
Sucks to work in a non-profit, right? Oh wait... }:^). Those assholes are lobbying to block public llm, 0 sympathy.
Re:Meta Llama 3 by mvkel on Thursday April 18, 2024 @05:21PM (#40080852)
It's important to distinguish between open source and open weights
Re:Meta Llama 3 by skybrian on Thursday April 18, 2024 @06:28PM (#40081416)
How does that work? Nobody will be able to run the big models who doesn't have a big data center or lots of rent money to burn. How is it going to matter to most of us?

It seems similar to open chip designs - irrelevant to people who are going to buy whatever chips they use anyway. Maybe I'll design a circuit board, but no deeper than that.

Modern civilization means depending on supply chains.

Re:Meta Llama 3 by a_wild_dandan on Thursday April 18, 2024 @07:04PM (#40081676)
The day it's released, Llama-3-405B will be running on someone's Mac Studio. These models aren't that big. It'll be fine, just like Llama-2.
Re:Meta Llama 3 by eigenvalue on Thursday April 18, 2024 @07:36PM (#40081865)
Maybe at 1 or 2 bits of quantization! Even the Macs with the most unified RAM are maxxed out with much smaller models than 405b (especially since it's a dense model and not a MOE).
Re:Meta Llama 3 by llm_trw on Friday April 19, 2024 @12:47AM (#40083510)
You can build a $6,000 machine with 12 channels DDR5 memory that's big enough to hold an 8bit quantized model. The generation speed is abysmal of course.

Anything better than that starts at 200k per machine and goes up from there.

Not something you can run at home, but definitely within the budget of most medium sized firms to buy one.

Re:Meta Llama 3 by MeImCounting on Friday April 19, 2024 @01:44AM (#40083773)
You can build a machine that can run 70b models at great TpS speeds for around 30-60k. That same machine could almost certainly run a 400b model with "useable" speeds. Obviously much slower than current ChatGPT speeds but still, that kind of machine is well within the means of wealthy hobbyists/highly compensated SWEs and small firms.
Re:Meta Llama 3 by tanelpoder on Friday April 19, 2024 @03:36AM (#40084281)
I just tested llama3:70b with ollama on my old AMD ThreadRipper Pro 3965WX workstation (16-core Zen4 with 8 DDR4 mem channels), with a single RTX 4090.

Got 3.5-4 tokens/s, GPU compute was <20% busy (~90W) and the 16 CPU cores / 32 threads were about 50% busy.

Re:Meta Llama 3 by llm_trw on Friday April 19, 2024 @08:40AM (#40086088)
Jesus that's the old one?
Re:Meta Llama 3 by reasonabl_human on Friday April 19, 2024 @11:44AM (#40088238)
And that’s not quantized at all, correct?

If so, then the parent comment’s sentiment holds true…. Exciting stuff.