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Re:DNS over Wikipedia by chownie on Friday April 12, 2024 @02:46AM (#40009998)
Do they pretend there's no censorship? I don't see that. They block spam and I'm certain no one objects to that, so the bare fact that they exclude some information clearly does not constitute the status "censored"

I'd imagine the reason kiwifarms gets different treatment is because the site is a lot worse than the descriptor "anti-trans doxxing forum" might make you believe — it's a website designed specifically to facilitate long term stalking and harassment campaigns. Trans people are their flavour of the month right now but a few years ago it was anyone disabled.

Re:DNS over Wikipedia by diogocp on Friday April 12, 2024 @04:18AM (#40010446)
> Do they pretend there's no censorship?

Yes, they do. Censorship of official links is against explicit Wikipedia policy[1], but it doesn't matter because every policy can be overridden by consensus. In practice this means that a handful of professional activists can (and do) censor it as they see fit, since they can determine for themselves whether such a "consensus" exists.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links#Offic...

Re:DNS over Wikipedia by psychoslave on Friday April 12, 2024 @06:46AM (#40011165)
The Mediawiki environment became increasingly hostile to "the external world" though.

I am making a research project on grammatical gender in French, that I host on Wikiversity (there is a dedicated research space there). Lately I get an increasingly large number of rejection of saving my contributions, because some sites are considered "unreliable sources". But in my project, I am looking to document what people use in practice in their written exchanges. That they express lies or try to spread disinformation is irrelevant from the linguistic perspective I’m conducting this project. But due to this software enforced policy, I get prevented from documenting my sources from time to time.

Re:DNS over Wikipedia by thaumasiotes on Friday April 12, 2024 @09:26AM (#40012514)
If they're spreading disinformation, obviously they also aren't accurately representing their own speech patterns. That's just common sense.
Re:DNS over Wikipedia by joshuaissac on Friday April 12, 2024 @09:43AM (#40012777)
> If they're spreading disinformation, obviously they also aren't accurately representing their own speech patterns.

But GP is not documenting the 'true' speech patterns of the people spreading the disinformation, but rather the speech patterns they use when they are spreading disinformation (which, as you pointed out, might be different from their normal speech pattern). So the sources are still good enough for that.

Re:DNS over Wikipedia by schleck8 on Friday April 12, 2024 @05:55AM (#40010937)
If you had actually read the thread you'd know that it's Wikipedia policy not to include links to sites containg content illegal in the US because that can actually get visitors in trouble. This isn't the cultural war you make it out to be, it's supposed to prevent Wikipedia readers from having their browser download child porn hosted by a notoriously undermoderated forum.

It really ain't that deep. You don't need to gather a council of superhuman intelligent individuals to draft a new galactic law in order to remove a url from a Wikipedia article. Turning on your brain is enough most of the time. Noone with a healthy psych advocates for a suicide assistance forum telling vulnerable 13 year olds how to kill themselves with an overdose (looking at Cloudflare). It's not gonna "seT a pReCedEnt" because noone outside the moralizer liberalism bubble gives a flying crap anyways. The day goes on like normal and they can take it to some backyard to exercise their free speech

Re:DNS over Wikipedia by shp0ngle on Friday April 12, 2024 @06:27AM (#40011071)
> If you had actually read the thread you'd know that it's Wikipedia policy not to include links to sites containg content illegal in the US because that can actually get visitors in trouble.

Not really though.

They have WP:ELNO which includes this, but that excludes WP:ELOFFICIAL. Official links are exception to that list.

> "These links are normally exempt from the links normally to be avoided, but they are not exempt from the restrictions on linking"

The only things that are restricted for official pages is what is in WP:ELNEVER

> 1. Policy: material that violates the copyrights of others per contributors' rights and obligations should not be linked, whether in an external-links section or in a citation.[a] External links to websites that display copyrighted works are acceptable as long as the website is manifestly run, maintained or owned by the copyright owner; the owner has licensed the content in a way that allows the website to use it; or the website uses the work in a way compliant with fair use. Knowingly directing others to material that violates copyright might be considered contributory copyright infringement.[c] If there is reason to believe that a website has a copy of a work in violation of its copyright, do not link to it. Linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work casts a bad light on Wikipedia and its editors. This is particularly relevant when linking to sites such as Scribd, WikiLeaks, or YouTube, where due care should be taken to avoid linking to material that violates copyright. > 2. Technical: sites that match the Wikipedia-specific or multi-site blacklist without being whitelisted. Edits containing such links are automatically blocked from being saved.

According to wikipedia's own official policies, links to 8chan and kiwifarms should be allowed as official links, as Stormfront and The Daily Stormer is, as they don't break copyright and are not on spam blacklists.

---

again my problem is not censorship (I am for that), it's just that wikipedia acts like it isn't happening and cannot make an official ruleset that they follow.

Re:DNS over Wikipedia by rosmax_1337 on Friday April 12, 2024 @07:49AM (#40011491)
Wikipedia acting like it's not censorship is the standard method in which censorship happens in the west today. The people in charge here gloat and applaud the idea of democracy and freedom of speech, while they use dishonest tactics to censorship.

Here's the old joke:

> A Russian and an American get on a plane in Moscow and get to talking.

> The Russian says he works for the Kremlin and he's on his way to go learn American propaganda techniques.

> "What American propaganda techniques?" asks the American.

> "Exactly!" the Russian replies.

Re:DNS over Wikipedia by dylnuge on Friday April 12, 2024 @08:54AM (#40012036)
There's not a strong differentiation between "official" policies and guidelines and "unofficial" specific consensus on Wikipedia. Individual arguments are generally built out of policy and policy is just longer-standing consensus and can be changed. It's not like there's a different group of editors setting policy from those who argue on talk pages.
Re:DNS over Wikipedia by MichaelZuo on Friday April 12, 2024 @11:58AM (#40014374)
Is it really true that Wikipedia doesn’t have a formal, credible, method of determining whether a “consensus” exists?
Re:DNS over Wikipedia by jl6 on Friday April 12, 2024 @12:58PM (#40015086)
It’s true that there is nothing which should work in theory, and yet mostly does in practice.
Re:DNS over Wikipedia by shp0ngle on Friday April 12, 2024 @03:04AM (#40010091)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_...

https://foundation.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Controver...

If there is some official policy which links are allowed and which are not, I'll shut up.

Why are some links allowed and some not, what is the policy, if there is some.

I see

> Wikimedia projects are not censored. Some kinds of content, particularly that of a sexual, violent or religious nature, may be offensive to some viewers; and some viewers may feel such content is disrespectful or inappropriate for themselves, their families or their students, while others may find it acceptable.

which seems to me against link censorship.