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Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by gentleman11 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @06:28PM (#39985017)
The government is passing a law that says only company x make saws, due to various patents making it unrealistic to make your own design. They’re outlawing competition. Unless every relevant patent is opened up, this is extreme regulatory capture and is going to be a price gouging patent licensing circus after it passes
Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by wvenable on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @06:33PM (#39985051)
Yeah this needs to be met with invalidation of patents. If the government mandates something, it has to be possible without patent infringement.
Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by ip26 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @07:10PM (#39985303)
Commonly there would be a requirement to license the patent, rather than striking it down for the crime of being indispensable.
Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by InvertedRhodium on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @07:25PM (#39985386)
If they applied FRAND requirements to it, then I could see that working. So long as it's just a license for the patent holder to extort other companies I can't support it at all.
Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by selimnairb on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @08:59PM (#39985911)
Give SawStop $10B and seize the patents under eminent domain.
Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by refurb on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @02:48AM (#39987675)
Jesus that would certainly kill any future innovation.

“Hey if your product is so good that absolutely everyone needs to have it we’ll make sure you get no financial reward for developing it”

Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by alphazard on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @06:44PM (#39985138)
Yeah this guy gets it.

Regardless of your stance on whether the government should regulate x or y, it's important to understand that the people driving this law do not care about you or your fingers. This is rent seeking; someone who makes safe saws wants to sell more of their saws, and they compete with people who sell less safe saws. They are using the legal system to benefit their own bottom line.

After the real goal is established, reasons like "think of the children" or "think of the fingers" can be fabricated.

Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by unethical_ban on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @07:58PM (#39985570)
>it's important to understand that the people driving this law do not care about you or your fingers

People and consumer advocates can feasibly have motives other than greed.

Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by stuaxo on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @08:56PM (#39985899)
Seatbelts is a good example: Volvo let any one use 3 point seatbelts so this could be standardised.
Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by thereisnospork on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @07:00PM (#39985257)
But what do the goals matter? The only relevant question I can see is 'are the fingers worth the rent?'

To that point, a regulation requiring "if and only if" per unit licensing is available at (much) less than the worth of the fingers should be a no brainier.

Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by InvertedRhodium on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @07:26PM (#39985390)
Given the relatively small market share that SawStop enjoys, you can only assume that most people feel like the fingers aren't really worth the rent.
Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by thereisnospork on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @07:37PM (#39985458)
It's not really their choice to make though. (trivially, see seatbelts, smoking, airline regulations, ...).

Should it be? Maybe, but that's a discussion out of scope from 'is it in society's interest to mandate inclusion of sawstop's technology, or it's equivalent?'.

Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by InvertedRhodium on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @11:12PM (#39986608)
As of right now, it's 100% their choice to make. Next week, who knows?
Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by lobsterthief on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @07:20AM (#39989411)
A lot of people simply can’t afford their saws though.
Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by x0x0 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @07:01PM (#39985263)
Right in the article, it says most patents are now expired and for the final key patent that expires in 2033, the owner -- SawStop's corp parent -- has offered to donate it to the public if this rule passes.

edit: if you believe different, please share. But per this article, patents do not seem to be a reason to avoid this tech. And the SawStop v1 was introduced in 2004, so it stands to reason we can now produce patent-free equivalent tech to the 2004 machine.

Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by dunmalg on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @08:20PM (#39985686)
Here is a link to Gass' patent portfolio:

https://patents.justia.com/inventor/stephen-f-gass

Notice that the vast majority of his patents have to do with various aspects of "active injury mitigation technology", primarily related to saws, and that the most recent one was filed in August 2021. The only patent being offered up is the original--- Patent 9,724,840--- which basically only releases a very specific, early implementation of the safety system that has since undergone 20 years of additional patent activity.

Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by x0x0 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @10:03PM (#39986257)
Thanks for the link. Does any of this block competitors from selling a 2004-equivalent table saw with brake unencumbered by patents? I don't believe it can.
Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by zippothrowaway on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @05:18PM (#39995829)
Yes it can.

Sawstop, like a lot of other companies, abuse the patent process by filing multiple continuations with the exact same specification. They then let the patent office take its time granting some of them, and claim a 'patent term extension' due to the patent office delays.

So if they filed in 2001, but one of their patents wasn't granted for over 14 years due to the patent office taking 10 years in total to respond to the many arguments over patentability, it may expire in 2031. This seems absurd, but is totally legal. Being run by a patent attorney means they (a) are ninja level at drawing these arguments out and constantly filing appeals to continue examination after a denial by a patent examiner and (b) it doesn't cost them much to do so.

I'm simplifying and my numbers aren't exact, but this abuse is the problem.

Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by x0x0 on Thursday April 11, 2024 @03:51PM (#40006089)
Thank you! This is the first answer that isn't incoherent blathering about patents bad.

Per wikipedia, it seems those continuation patents all expire in 2026 at the latest.

Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by smolder on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @12:44AM (#39987033)
They have offered to give away the key patent... I get the sense people aren't reading the story here.
Re:After years of trying, the U.S. government may mandate sa... by romwell on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @10:49PM (#39997944)
>due to various patents making it unrealistic to make your own design

Is it unrealistic, or are the companies simply not pursuing that market because it would harm their existing lines of product?

>Unless every relevant patent is opened up, this is extreme regulatory capture and is going to be a price gouging patent licensing circus after it passes

Personally, I'm fine with that.

As per the article, an entry-level SawStop retails for $899.

There's not excuse why this kind of tech isn't in every saw. The low cost of existing saws is a negative externality whose cost (cut off fingers) is borne by the society (insurance companies, healthcare, and government).