So by that logic can anyone who is not a homeless orphan with nothing to their name be self made? Even then, they'd probably get disqualified if a passer by took pity on them and bought them a free meal.

Well no because my having received a free meal isn't something I can leverage into considerable loans or investor interest.

Additionally, well, yes - 'self made' is a myth when our societies and economies are a network. Nothing occurs in a vacuum.

There is a pretty broad spectrum that encompasses almost every human alive between homeless orphan and Jenner

Yes but where you choose to draw the line on that spectrum is completely arbitrary.

That's why I brought up Kylie. I'm surprised people are so angry about it, I was basically just trying to say hey there is an interesting other conversation to be had here. I tend to agree with you, sure Kylie has a huge leg up, but there is some ratio, and some up and some down... in like... someone might be born kid of a B list rapper and inherent $2MM.. take it to zero in 5 years, or $100MM in 5 years. If Kylie gets to a $1B net worth by the time she is 28.9, personally, I'd give her some cheer, she agreed to choices that have been net positive for her consistently for a sustained period of time, and when she gets there, I would be fine to agree she is a billionaire under 30 who didn't inherit her billions. Oh, and i'll also add, I suspect she will make it to that number before she is 30, by some measures she's actually already there.

It it, but you could probably just say P90 and below is self made.

Well, this is why I brought up "where do we draw the line?" I am quite aware that the whole debate is about where we decide to draw the line.

However, you're obviously extending the logic far beyond the way I intended to extend it.

I'm really talking about something closer to "a median upbringing." Someone who saved up an attainable sum just by working a typical job or by obtaining a modest "middle class attainable" sized loan to seed the business.

Kylie started with a much larger seed: complimentary marketing worth actual millions. Not a $25,000 loan that was paid back via single store sales to start a sandwich shop like Jimmy Johns. (Which, I realize, is a decent chunk of change in 1982, but it's basically nothing compared to what Kylie started with)

What you don't know is how many celebrities also inherited a brand but did not or could not make a successful business out of it.

What you imply is that by having a large seed, succeeds was guaranteed.

My take is that if somebody else getting the same inheritance wasn't able to achieve success, then it counts as self made for the one that did succeed (with said inheritance).

I just don’t find this a useful comparison for nearly anyone interested in becoming a self-made person, hoping to draw inspiration. I’m sorry, but growing up in a very wealthy family, inheriting a large number of followers, and starting with a huge amount of influence… that’s not something most people will have. Beyond that, you have a massive, massive cushion to take risks, to try and fail, and to try different business models. And on top of that, you are taught directly from your successful parents how to start these lifestyle businesses. These are all crucial parts of success that most people don’t have access to.

It’s a lot more useful and interesting to draw the line earlier.

> My take is that if somebody else getting the same inheritance wasn't able to achieve success, then it counts as self made for the one that did succeed (with said inheritance).

That just redefines "self-made" to mean anyone that succeeded, which isn't very useful.

There might not be a clear place to draw the line between richie rich and starving orphan in 3rd world country, but Kylie Jenner is easily one of the most obvious examples of not-self-made out there.