Where do people get these class warfare talking points? Is there a new wave of teenagers discovering Das Kapital and then saying stuff like this online?

We used to have strong unions that built a strong middle class. Now everyone's out for themselves and real wages are 1/3rd what they were for our grandparents. We have record numbers of the upper class, and fewer middle class each year.

A lot of people want a middle class life and are seeing the connection between strong unified bargaining and their chances to become middle class.

Everyone always has, and always will be, looking out for themselves. It’s biological.

I agree that free markets plus free unionization can lead to great results (look at Sweden - no labour laws and strong unions and high wages).

But this hankering for a catastrophically flawed social system (built-in hate for other classes?!) that depends on changing human nature and thus never works is even cringier than Ayn Rand-quoting teenagers who want no government at all.

Does Sweden really not have labor laws?

I don't think the US created these laws just to be nice to people.

Corporations were literally hiring private armies and killing people. So the people voted for laws. Maybe they seem antiquated now, but they did have a reason for being.

And, if there is a class system, like if you are born rich, you get to be rich, if you are born poor you get to stay poor. Then it seems natural to start to dislike each other. How can you fault people born into poverty for disliking the people creating a system to keep them there?

> if you are born rich, you get to be rich, if you are born poor you get to stay poor.

I came to the US with $700 in debt. But I didn’t stay poor.

>Then it seems natural to start to dislike each other.

It may be natural, but it seems extremely counterproductive.

Labor laws are literally created because politicians are trying to win votes by being nice to at least some of the people. Democracy at work.

I’d like to see some numbers for how many people are getting slaughtered in the streets by these roving private armies that have the keys to the city.

And as for the class system, have a look at social mobility now versus 100 years ago vs 1000 years ago vs 10k years ago. Progress remains to be made, but society has never been more fluid and fair.

The laws aren't new. Like they were created last year for an election. They were born out of the early 19 century industrialization/gilded age. Maybe they should be updated, but you are really miss-categorizing the history.

And, social mobility has gone down, the American Dream is gone for a lot of people. Is it still better than being a feudal serf? sure, but don't worship what it has become?

Social Mobility:

Can go find all the sources here. But these are nice summaries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_mobility_in_the_....

Deaths

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_worker_deaths_in_Unite...

Note:

I've worked in union and non-union plants. I can tell you, non-union is no paradise, they have worse safety conditions and worse attitudes and lower pay.

Definitely in non-union plants the workers are just meat.

All the libertarians with their ideals about small government and 'individual rights' are just playing into the corporate desires. Because the more people can be separated into 'individuals', then they can be picked off one by one. You're driving into a dystopian hell scape with eyes wide open.

Government is by the people, for the people, which in todays world is treated like 'socialism'.

Once you get a step further than that you'll realize that unions are another mechanism used to control labor[0] and that federal reserve policy on down is designed explicitly to suppress wages[1] so really the only solution is to make politicians fear the people again.

[0]https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-signs-bill-block-us-r... (you aren't allowed to strike beacuse it will cost people money)

[1-1]eg. 2% inflation target was originally suggested as it allowed employers to not give raises and lower their employee expenses over time

[1-2]eg. interest rates were only raised once wages started ticking upward after decades of stagnation and decline, inflation in every other area of the marketplace wasn't a concern and you were labeled some sort of "inflation nut" if you mentioned it

[1-3] now consider trade tariffs that encourage firms to offshore, lack of immigration enforcement creating a unlimited supply of low skill labor, use of below minimum wage prison labor to dilute the power of workers not in prison, welfare programs that subsidize low wage workers who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford working for a employer and you start to think this isn't just a happy accident for the capital class that the world is arranged in this very specific way benefitting them.

> A lot of people want a middle class life and are seeing the connection between strong unified bargaining and their chances to become middle class.

... and the connection between post-Soviet rabid capitalism (I know, the onset of Thatcherism was before that - but only after the USSR collapsed, rabid capitalism really began to take up speed), globalization for goods but not people, and resulting widespread destruction in domestic low-level employment (mining, factories) also becomes more and more apparent.

Well, destruction of a competitor is always good for owners of the company, not for workers.

"Where do people get these class warfare talking points? "

There does seem to be a segment of people that aren't super rich, but are rich enough to be isolated and don't realize there is a huge number of people really struggling. They don't seem to realize 'poor' people exists. Or think they should just get a job.

Typically, this class of 'bour·geoi·sie' don't realize they are benefiting from the 'class war' being waged by the super rich, and that they are actually winning.

There has always been struggle, always poor and rich.

I'm on the side that things are better now than ever. Specifically with a trend line through the COVID dip that we are still recovering from.

People are coming to America by the 1000's everyday because this is the best place in the world for opportunity.

The super rich are not our enemies.

America also has good Geography, farm land, rivers, peaceful boarders(despite the rhetoric), oceans for protection.

And, convenient plagues upon settlement, pretty much an empty continent with all of these plentiful resources. Which caused a huge spring board effect.

It's basically an entire country that has survivor bias.

Those sentences are unrelated. Humanity has never needed billionaires and only in abstract theory does their existence benefit the rest.

> Humanity has never needed billionaires and only in abstract theory does their existence benefit the rest.

I’ve witnessed how decisions are made in a country with no billionaires - they were made by Politburo guys. I’ve also witnessed how decisions are made by Elon Mask. I’d have Mask over Politburo every time.

Billionaires are just centers of power who are not subject to the Party ideology and control. Why would anyone refuse having the power more distributed?

Ok, boomer.

a) address the argument, not the person

b) spreading class divisions is bad, and spreading generational divisions is worse, because it splits up society rather than unify us. So stop it.

c) I’m a millennial

Lol, by living in the World for more decades than a teenager.

Did you have a point to make?

I doubt one in a hundred have actually read any part of the original sources. They get what they know from fifteen second videos.

This is not their fault, however. Reading long form is becoming a specialized skill.

If you think America's administrative competency crisis will make things better for workers, I'd like some of what you're smoking.