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Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Retric on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:13AM (#39826417)
Bridges only last for roughly 50 years. Considering such collisions are rare enough to make the news as a memorable event you can workout for yourself that the odds are quite low over a bridges lifespan.

They are designed to withstand smaller boat impacts because they occur relatively frequently, but cost vs benefit on rare events that are difficult to mitigate is quite different.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by SECProto on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:27AM (#39826997)
> Bridges only last for roughly 50 years.

The bridge projects I've been on spec 75 or 100 years. Main difference is better protection/sacrificial depth on ferrous members.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by LeonB on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:14AM (#39827407)
I remember one of my engineering lecturers giving a good rule of thumb as “your retirement date, plus 10 years”
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by yosame on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:20AM (#39826468)
Do you mean 50 years without maintenance? I would be shocked if major bridges weren't designed to last indefinitely.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by 0xbadcafebee on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:43AM (#39826640)
Depends on the bridge. Steel and concrete bridges can last for at least 100 years. But it depends on the environment, its expected use, the construction, design. Some famous major bridges failed early due to poor design or poor construction, but many still fail due to lack of maintenance.

The average age of a bridge in the USA is 43 years. But we also have an epidemic of unmaintained bridges.

No bridge made today is designed to last indefinitely. Many different forces will degrade the bridge over time, even with maintenance. Steel stresses weaken it over time. Concrete weathers over time due to salt, chemicals, water, wind, and the steel reinforcements tend to corrode eventually.

Stone bridges may last for an exceptionally long time, but their weight and expense makes them only useful in limited applications, typically as small rail overpasses. Ones that were designed for horse and buggy end up slowly failing as heavier trucks and cars in traffic weaken them.

The same fate lies for timber bridges. When well maintained they can last for 75 years, but it's expensive and requires certain skills. They were also mostly designed before heavier cars and trucks, and for less traffic. Most famous covered bridges today are being closed to traffic due to increased wear.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by btilly on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @11:08AM (#39828889)
According to https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bridge/, the federal government oversees more than 610,000 bridges in the USA. There are a lot of unmaintained small bridges. But I'd hope that the major ones get more attention.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by 0xbadcafebee on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @01:10PM (#39830286)
Here's a list of major bridges that need attention (& aren't getting it): https://artbabridgereport.org/state/ranking/top-bridges

FHWA provides up to $7 Billion in assistance in maintaining bridges. But it would take at least $125 Billion to begin dealing with the structurally deficient bridges in the USA, according to the ASCE Infrastructure Report Card[1].

Add to this the fact that many bridges in the US are privately owned, and it's the responsibility of the bridge owner to maintain them. But guess what's not profitable for a private enterprise? Maintaining bridges. Despite this, train derailments and property damage continue every year due to unmaintained bridge and train infrastructure.

The executive has proposed funding for repairs, but as usual, it's not enough[2]. So far they've gotten almost half that number of bridges repaired, and pledged another $300M,[3] which is still just a drop in the bucket of what's needed of the backlog; it doesn't address all the new maintenance that will be needed each year.

According to the American Road & Transportation Builders Association, there are 167 million crossings on 42,400 bridges rated in poor condition. [4]

[1] https://infrastructurereportcard.org/cat-item/bridges-infras... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/biden-has-plan-fix-amer... [3] https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases... [4] https://artbabridgereport.org/congressional/map

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by ajb on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @02:13PM (#39830996)
Personally I'm in favour of government maintaining stuff, but https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Bridge_Foundation has maintained most of London's bridges privately for nearly three quarters of a millennia so I wouldn't say it can't be done.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by 0xbadcafebee on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @05:08PM (#39832885)
I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying we specifically fail to hold private industry accountable in the US. So we get things like poisonous runoff from agriculture and industrial production, insanely slow and outdated train lines, privately owned bridges that fail and cause injury, property damage and traffic jams, massive wildfires causing property damage and loss of life from unmaintained utility infrastructure, and worldwide banking crises, among other things.

Is it impossible for these things to stop happening? No, not at all. But it's probably not going to stop, in this country, because we let private industry get away with whatever they want. If this were the UK the story would be very different.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by ajb on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:57PM (#39834212)
Fair. I can't claim to know how to make it work better in the US. We have also other private infrastructure in the UK that's not working so well (like the water companies, which are not providing enough sewage processing capacity and so allow the extra to overflow into rivers)

I mainly made that comment because it still blows my mind the the City Bridge Foundation has been going for 740 years

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by mango7283 on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:37AM (#39826601)
I can think of at least 5 famous bridges that are way older than 50 years...
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Retric on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:41AM (#39826631)
Sure, and there's 100's of thousands of replaced bridges that don't immediately spring to mind.

Though to be clear designed to last 50 years isn't the same as saying it will only last exactly 50 years, or that theirs nothing you can do to extend a bridges lifespan if it's replacement is running a little late.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by bee_rider on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:43AM (#39827139)
If it is a famous bridge, it seems possible that they’ve done some special extra maintenance, replace more wear-and-tear bits that would normally fail. Eventually you probably get the tourist attraction of Theseus.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by onlyrealcuzzo on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:34AM (#39826573)
Nothing lasts indefinitely...
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by b33j0r on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:34AM (#39826571)
Interested in this claim, because it sounds about right, except that I can’t name a bridge constructed in the past 50 years.

The bridges we can all name are pushing 100+ right?

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by maxerickson on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:12AM (#39826860)
Mackinac Bridge is somewhat famous, built in the 1950s.

They more or less do continuous maintenance during the warmer months of the year.

(So older than 50, but younger than 100)

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by bluedino on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:32AM (#39827049)
Michiganders will also know the "Z Bridge", completed in 1988

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilwaukee_Bridge

Sticking with the mid-western therme, the Chicago Skyway was built in 1958

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by colomon on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @06:31PM (#39833583)
First span of the Blue Water Bridge (Port Huron to Sarnia) built 1938, doing just fine as far as I know. (Drove over it a couple of weekends ago.) Second span was 1997.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by rrdharan on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:50AM (#39826693)
New York City has had two major recent new bridge replacements that probably about 20M people can name: the Mario Cuomo (formerly Tappan Zee) and the Kosciuszko bridge.

I’d argue the Bayonne Bridge raising kinda counts since it was almost a rebuild and more impressive in many ways since it stayed open the whole time.

Meanwhile in the San Francisco Bay Area they replaced the Bay Bridge…

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by mannykannot on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:46AM (#39827160)
The Tappan Zee bridge certainly wasn't built with the intention of replacing it after 65 years. Nor, fortunately, was the George Washington bridge.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by colatkinson on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @11:02AM (#39828813)
The old Tappan Zee was basically a perfect encapsulation of "dumb midcentury infrastructure decisions."

1. Built to last only 50 years to save on materials (as the other commenter noted).

2. Built over literally the widest possible part of the Hudson because the governor got in a pissing contest with the Port Authority and wanted all the tolls to go to the state, which wouldn't have been the case had it been built like 2 miles south where the river is narrower.

3. Designed with zero redundancy, such that a "critical fracture could make the bridge fail completely because its supports couldn’t transfer the structure’s load to other supports." [0]

So yeah if we're being real, 50 years was quite optimistic.

The new Tappan Zee is apparently supposed to last 100 years, though given the incidents with substandard materials being used, as well as ever-increasing traffic, who knows.

That said, driving over a bridge 10 years past its planned EOL and being able to look down directly to the water through gaps in the concrete was always a nice feature though -- who needs coffee when you've got that to get your heart rate up!

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tappan_Zee_Bridge_(1955%E2%80%...

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by njarboe on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @12:34PM (#39829816)
"dumb midcentury infrastructure decisions."

Keeping in mind that mid-century Japan and Germany were in ruins and the possibility of nuclear annihilation of urban centers very much at the top of many people minds. 50 years may have seemed an optimistic survival rate of built structures at the time.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by 0110101001 on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @10:37AM (#39828463)
> Started on the cheap during the Korean War, the Tappan Zee was deliberately built to last just 50 years.

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/17/nyregion/a-bridge-that-ha...

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by mannykannot on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @01:17PM (#39830372)
I can't argue with that!
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by rrdharan on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:09AM (#39827357)
Agreed I was just addressing the parent poster question of whether anyone can name a major bridge built in the last fifty years…
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by dredmorbius on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:15AM (#39827418)
The eastern span of the Bay Bridge, which had previously been a cantilever bridge, which was damaged during the 1989 Loma Prieta Earthquake, and shown to have quite obvious seismic deficiencies.

Its replacement is a self-anchored suspension bridge.

The original western span, actually a double suspension bridge, remains standing, as constructed in 1933, 91 years ago.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by b33j0r on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @10:39AM (#39828502)
So this detail… that is where my misconception arose. Thanks!
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by kijiki on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @01:51PM (#39830727)
The western span had substantial seismic remediation applied in 2000-2001.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by lowercased on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:02AM (#39826794)
The Francis Scott Key bridge - the subject of this story - was finished in 1977, and took about 5 years, so... much of it was constructed in the last 50 years. ???
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Retric on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:03AM (#39826800)
How many bridges, such as highway overpasses, that you use regularly can you name?

Here's an interesting list of major bridges with dates, most of the newer ones being replacements: https://www.carolinadesigns.com/obx-guide/fun-info/bridges/

They even note a rare exception designed to last 100 years with maintenance.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Reason077 on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:42AM (#39827129)
The Crimean bridge is quite (in)famous, and it was built quite recently.

The Millau Viaduct also comes to mind when thinking of famous, iconic modern bridges.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by kergonath on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @12:29PM (#39829721)
The Øresund Bridge as well (opened in 2000).
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by philwelch on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:52AM (#39827226)
Most of the bridges I can think of in the state of Washington are much newer than that.

There are now two Tacoma Narrows Bridges. The oldest was built in 1950. The one that infamously collapsed was built in 1940. The newer bridge is from 2007. The West Seattle Bridge was closed due to damage in 2020 and reopened after repairs in 2022. It was originally built in the 1980’s after the previous bridge was hit by a ship. There are two floating bridges on I-90 east of Seattle. One of them sunk during reconstruction work in 1990 and was replaced. Theres also a new 520 floating bridge that opened in 2016. The Hood Canal Bridge (also a floating bridge) originally opened in 1961, sunk in 1979, was reopened in the 1980’s, and large parts of it were replaced in the 00’s.

The Ballard Bridge actually is over a century old! It was opened in 1917. However there was a lot of reconstruction done during the 1930’s. The Fremont Bridge is also from 1917. Both of these bridges span a ship canal that was built between 1911 and 1934. The Aurora Bridge was also built in the 1930’s.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by tekla on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:39AM (#39827680)
I can't imagine how it is to be so insulated from the world to not be able to name a single major bridge construction in the past 50 years.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by vundercind on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @04:56PM (#39832755)
If you don’t live somewhere with famous/major bridges it’s really easy. I doubt I could name ten bridges period that aren’t in my mid-sized city (and I can only give the correct name for two of the ones here, neither of which is famous). I can only identify maybe four by sight from outside my city—I can name a few that I couldn’t pick out of a lineup of photos.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by serf on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:40AM (#39827688)
vincent thomas bridge in LA is from 1960 -- old but not 100+
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by apocalyptic0n3 on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @10:34AM (#39828410)
There's a massive one being constructed right now - the Gordie Howe International Bridge. It'll be the second bridge (and fourth crossing) between Detroit and Windsor when it opens next year. Although maybe I only know of that one because I grew up in metro Detroit.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by jcranmer on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @04:21PM (#39832394)
Depends on the "we" you're talking about, I guess.

In the DC/MD/VA area, almost all the bridges I can name are less than 100 years old. Woodrow Wilson, American Legion, Chesapeake Bay Bridge, Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel, Key Bridge, Key Bridge, Nice Bridge, Memorial Bridge, Chain Bridge, 14th street bridges... Some of those were even built after 2000! Also the New River Gorge Bridge in WV is pretty famous and not even 50.

Well, actually, the Key Bridge (in DC) apparently turned 100 years old last year. And I guess the Long Bridge (though not a road bridge) is also over 100...

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by HeyLaughingBoy on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @04:29PM (#39832475)
Living not too far outside Minneapolis, we rebuilt a bridge that rather famously came down a bit over 15 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Mississippi_River_bridge

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Hamuko on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:35AM (#39826580)
Doesn't the US have a problem with bridges exceeding their expected service lives?
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by _heimdall on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:13AM (#39826869)
That's a common topic here, yes, though honestly I rarely hear about a bridge collapse. I don't actually remember the last time I saw news of a bridge or overpass collapse that wasn't causes by damage like this.

Makes me want to find the data now. I don't actually known if our bridges are too old, poorly maintained and falling apart early, or if the whole topic is just herd mentality and politics.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Hamuko on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:18AM (#39826902)
>I don't actually remember the last time I saw news of a bridge or overpass collapse that wasn't causes by damage like this.

Fern Hollow Bridge Mk. II?

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by themaninthedark on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @04:01PM (#39832194)
If we count pedestrian overpasses as part of overpass; FIU pedestrian overpass.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by dredmorbius on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:20AM (#39827475)
Among the more spectacular recent US bridge failures was the I-35W bridge in Minneapolis, which failed during rush hour with bumper-to-bumper traffic with a loss of 13 lives on 1 August 2007: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Mississippi_River_bridge>

There's a list of many more failures at Wikpedia, though international in scope:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures>

There are a number of ship-bridge collisions listed, as well as fuel-tanker explosions, which seems to be a surprisingly common failure mode.

Also numerous failures in China, though how much of that is simply a scale effect I can't say.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Retric on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:11AM (#39826851)
The boom of bridges after automobiles became common are all running out of time. Yet, paying for a replacement early is also wasteful.

So it's an issue, but those bridges where also constructed by a far poorer nation so it's not that big a deal.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by _heimdall on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:19AM (#39826926)
> but those bridges where also constructed by a far poorer nation

That's a must more interesting question when discussing the topic of infrastructure.

Sure we've created a lot more money in the last 50 years, but we've also lost a lot of domestic manufacturing. When it comes to something as vital as roads and bridges are we poorer when we have less paper money or when we are less independent in the manufacturing and maintenance of them?

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Retric on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:34AM (#39827618)
Money is a side issue people are generally a lot more productive than we where 50 years ago and the US population is 50% larger. That means the government has a lot more resources to work with though how it spends them is another question.

I think people feel poorer because income inequality increased so much. New homes are huge because new home buyers are the upper end of the wealth curve. Same deal with cars etc. Stuff that targets everyone like normal sized TV's ends up being extremely cheap because revealed preferences show people buy cheap when it's an option.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by _heimdall on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @10:26AM (#39828261)
> Money is a side issue people are generally a lot more productive than we where 50 years ago and the US population is 50% larger

Production per capita may have gone up, but that's (a) likely measuring productivity in financial terms and (b) heavily correlated with an increase in natural resource consumption, especially fossil fuels.

If we want to consider ourselves richer because we are able and willing to use more natural resources today could lead down a dark (and very hot) road.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Retric on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @10:51AM (#39828661)
Fossil fuel consumption in the US is down way down especially on a per person basis because of improved efficiency and cheaper alternatives. There's more Americans today, but in many ways we are consuming fewer resources while still being better off.

Compare a modern jet with one from the 1974 and sure many passengers have less leg room but it's hauling both people and 3rd party cargo while still using far less than 1/2 the fuel per passenger mile. Such improvements really add up and include things like engineered lumber using fast growth pines.

Look at the most popular car 50 years ago and you'll see the Ford Pinto. It's slow, unsafe, tiny, time consuming to maintain, fuel inefficient, and missing modern amenities but it was affordable. Inflation adjusted it's roughly the cost of a Mitsubishi Mirage which while better in just about every way is a rough equivalent the reason people are buying crossovers rather than the Mirage today is because people just have more wealth in real terms.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by _heimdall on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @11:07AM (#39828882)
When you say it is "down way down", how much is that exactly?

The data I found only goes back to 1965 [1], but from the absolute peak in the 70s to today we've reduced per capita use by around 30%. Over the last 20 years we've reduced it by around 15%, going back 10 years and the reduction is only around 5%. Time scale matters a lot here, as does a definition of what "way downdowm" would mean in real % reductions.

I totally agree we've made use of oil more efficient in things like engine efficiency. We've also found more uses for oil byproducts, which can be good or bad depending on your opinion (and again, on your time scale). If we've improved fuel efficiency by 50% and at best reduced fossil fuel per capita by 30%, we've squandered some of those gains by using more oil for other things.

Whether that's a good or bad thing is really up to opinion, goals one has in mind, and how one weighs the trade offs.

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fossil-fuels-per-capita

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Retric on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @01:40PM (#39830601)
At this scale even 10% is a big drop, down by 1/3 is IMO down way down.

That chart gives 31% in 49 years 63,836 in 2022 vs 92,635 in 1973, but the numbers are dropping faster each year.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by gooseyman on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @10:11PM (#39835019)
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by serf on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:46AM (#39827759)
>That means the government has a lot more resources to work with though how it spends them is another question.

it's not that clear-cut. regulations regarding construction are many times more strict, as well employment restrictions and safety code.

I mean, the things like the transcontinental railroad were built with what would largely be considered inhumanely treated human slaves by today standards -- that kind of 'advantageous hiring condition' thankfully no longer exists.

Stuff like that plus millions of other regulatory nuances that drive the cost of development to be many times more expensive than during the bad old 'wild west' make these kind of value analysis gapped by many years near impossible.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Retric on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @10:17AM (#39828115)
The transcontinental railroad was built without modern heavy equipment. Today fewer people can get a lot more work done even with humane working conditions and modern safety code. Which helps explain humane working conditions and modern safety code.

As to regulations, in 2023 an I-95 bridge failed after a gasoline tanker truck fire. They took 12 days to get a temporary replacement that got traffic flowing again. You occasionally see such projects where we need a fix now and then it happens. However, it was a temporary replacement and they needed an actual long term solution.

The difference between such rapid projects and more typical ones include time consuming steps to preventing dirt from settling and causing problems in the future etc. Regulations are filled with such tradeoffs, but that doesn't mean we're unable to move more quickly just that we can afford to do something else.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by lotsofpulp on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:32AM (#39827597)
Money is just a proxy for power, so “poorer” means not able to do something. Note that you are referring to “we” being poorer, and a country’s ability to do (or get) something is not the same as an individual within the country’s ability to do something.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by denton-scratch on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:49AM (#39827190)
> Bridges only last for roughly 50 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Bridge

Opened in 1781, still in service and perfectly safe. Of course, there are no container ships nearby. But I reckon you could sail a container ship under it, given enough water; and to damage the bridge supports, the container ship would need climbing equipment.

1781 isn't many years after the Declaration of Independence.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Retric on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:57AM (#39827878)
I'll raise you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkadiko_Bridge

But that's talking about the tail end of the bell curve not it's center.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by vikingerik on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @01:45PM (#39830658)
That's also a much smaller scale. 22 ft long, 13 ft high, and carries only foot traffic or maybe horses. Much less is demanded of that structure than of a river-spanning mile-long truck-carrying bridge.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by notahacker on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:52AM (#39827834)
If there was enough water for the 48m beam, 24m airdraft container ship that just collapsed the Baltimore bridge to attempt to navigate under the 30m span, 16m high Iron Bridge I don't think the bridge would stand a chance...
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by denton-scratch on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @12:36PM (#39829844)
Heh! OK, so I'm wrong about being able to sail a container ship under the Iron Bridge.

It didn't take motor traffic, because when it was built, there was no motor traffic. But the claim I replied to was about all bridges. But it used to take vehicle traffic: the WP article says "In 1934 it was designated a scheduled monument and closed to vehicular traffic."

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Retric on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @01:27PM (#39830482)
And all bridges do last roughly 50 years. Look at all bridges and figure out the average, median, or mode lifespan is reasonably close to 50 years +/- depends on where you draw the lines.

A tiny fraction reach 500 and so far none that we know of have hit 5,000 though there’s a few possibilities.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by ClumsyPilot on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @02:36PM (#39831257)
This is really bad math, your calculation is not about bridge strength / longevity but about how many bridges we built recently.

For example, if tomorrow we decided to build a new bridge next to every old bridge, average lifespan would half.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by Retric on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @03:13PM (#39831684)
current age != lifespan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

> if tomorrow we decided to build a new bridge next to every old bridge, average lifespan would half.

The only way building a bunch of new bridges changes lifespan is if we changed how they where built.

Figuring out lifespan rather than age is at best an approximation after looking at the bridges that didn't survive and the condition of bridges that do, but the uncertainty is low.

Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by throwaway48476 on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:17AM (#39827430)
Notice it's a pedestrian and not a vehicle bridge as well.
Re:The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland Has C... by mannykannot on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @01:35PM (#39830563)
An obsolete or worn-out bridge is likely to be replaced by another, and in such cases, a risk analysis which potentially comes to different conclusions depending on how often such a replacement occurs is missing the point.