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Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by gizmo on Monday March 18, 2024 @08:07AM (#39743058)
Do you have /any/ examples of websites that don't have a bunch of 3rd party cookies that still have a cookie banner?

Middle managers absolutely love anything with charts and graphs because it makes their decisions feel more scientific. That's why they want tracking software included on their websites. And if the law requires disclosure then a cookie popup is the solution.

Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by PennRobotics on Monday March 18, 2024 @08:28AM (#39743373)
It only took two minutes to find at https://www.schwarzkuenstler.com/ and I'm sure I can find a dozen more in half an hour.

Germany is a bit litigious w.r.t. internet or privacy, so the combination---cookie consent---is a doozy. Nearly every German website that does anything will have a consent notification, and the slightest misstep (e.g. using Google Fonts without asking permission) can be punishable.

Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by gizmo on Monday March 18, 2024 @08:39AM (#39743514)
Their privacy policy states they use Google reCAPTCHA, which requires disclosure.
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by PennRobotics on Tuesday March 19, 2024 @08:40AM (#39755096)
True, I hadn't noticed that at first glance, and I didn't see that as a third-party cookie in my site data. Nonetheless, I regularly see cookie warnings on sites with purely first-party cookies or even "just" session storage. (Mostly, I have been alert to this for the past year as I've started making non-personal web sites in Europe.)
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by maccard on Monday March 18, 2024 @08:31AM (#39743412)
My company recently announced a game, and we launched a website for the game. There's no ̶t̶h̶i̶r̶d̶ ̶p̶a̶r̶t̶y̶ e:tracking cookies (I didn't make the site, but I do run it).

Our US based legal team told us we needed a cookie banner if we were going to have visitors in the EU. I pushed back, but I lost, and ultimately it's not my fight.

Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by qarl on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:58AM (#39744623)
Your legal team is holding the door open for the day they decide to start tracking.

They probably won't tell you that, tho.

Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by maccard on Monday March 18, 2024 @10:12AM (#39744824)
Our legal team is following the checklist that they have that they know is pre-approved
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by qarl on Monday March 18, 2024 @10:31AM (#39745087)
OK? Does that contradict what I said?
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by p_l on Monday March 18, 2024 @01:47PM (#39747542)
Which was probably written (even if not by the legal team, but someone they consulted) with an eye towards keeping more data than legitimate interest allows under GDPR.
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by account42 on Monday March 18, 2024 @10:52AM (#39745376)
Sounds like your US legal team is covering their asses on topics they are not familiar with instead of acquiring the neccessary competences.
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by almostnormal on Monday March 18, 2024 @08:55AM (#39743718)
It is not about third party or not, but what it is used for. Consent may be required even if there are no cookies at all.
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by maccard on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:08AM (#39743916)
> It is not about third party or not

you're right, I said third party, but I actually meant tracking. I actually went and checked, and our only cookie is the cookie for if you've seen the cookie banner or not...

> Consent may be required even if there are no cookies at all.

For what?

Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by akvadrako on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:17AM (#39744016)
It's not about cookies. Tracking without cookies also requires consent.
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by maccard on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:19AM (#39744052)
See my original post. Our US legal team said that we need the banner if we have visitors from the EU, not if we're tracking them.
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by astura on Monday March 18, 2024 @10:00AM (#39744657)
>Our US legal team said that we need the banner if we have visitors from the EU, not if we're tracking them.

This actually makes sense - because if you didn't have the cookie banner then some fucking weirdo would come to Hacker News and make a self righteous post about how you're "tracking residents of the EU without their consent and abusing them" (even though you're not). Instant karma. Next thing you know these weirdos and their mob are reporting you to their government and you're dealing with government inquiries and more legal expenses trying to prove your cookie-less web 1.0 site doesn't "abuse people."

The banner placates them.

Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by bmicraft on Monday March 18, 2024 @03:20PM (#39748742)
Do you have any basis at all for such an absurd claim? The law actually works in the opposite direction (kinda):

You may use "legitimate interest" cookies/tracking without saying so, but as soon as you show a privacy dialog you actually have to disclose everything you're doing including legitimate interest.

Basically by having a list of what youre're doing with your user's data you're giving up your right to do anything not listed.

Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by paulmd on Monday March 18, 2024 @03:35PM (#39748955)
> For what?

GDPR actually doesn't specifically mention cookies at all. Tracking is what's illegal, not cookies.

Let's say you keep website logs with IPs on them, and you do analytics for non-essential purposes. You can do this under GDPR, but you must gain consent from the user before logging this PII.

It actually is completely and totally orthogonal to cookies. Some cookies are fine without consent. Some things that are not cookies are illegal without consent.

Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by raverbashing on Monday March 18, 2024 @08:41AM (#39743537)
Thanks for this, it seems a lot of cookie popups are there just due to cargo culting
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by maccard on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:33AM (#39744250)
I don't quite think Cargo Culting is the right label for it. It's not just because everyone's doing it. My experience when legal meets code is that common sense, intent and what is actually allowed go out the window, and cover-your-ass wins. My experience with Legal has been that they default to no "just in case" for every question you come to them with.

It's a battle to get them onboard to not taking the safest possible approach, so you only want to fight that battle when it's a kingmaker of an opportunity.

Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by rcxdude on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:39AM (#39744342)
Yeah, people often approach legal in the wrong way: people often want to ask "is this OK?" and have the lawyers say "yes", but basically no lawyer is going to say that for almost anything. Instead you need to ask them to explain what the risks of different courses of action are and take a view as to whether they are important or not.
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by maccard on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:45AM (#39744427)
That's been my experience, but unfortunately _that's_ where cargo culting comes in. As part of $NEW_WEBSITE_CHECKLIST we have to "check with legal" which inevitably involves a laundry list of stuff like this, and the default is to accept what legal says, unless we _really_ don't like the answer at which point we're going to do it anyway...
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by ryandrake on Monday March 18, 2024 @10:14AM (#39744849)
Legal counsel is there to advise, not to design product UX. Some companies have bonehead policies like “you must develop whatever Legal advises” but that’s a choice the company is making. Sensible companies treat their in house counsel as advisory, and weigh the risks like they would weigh any other risks.
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by p_l on Monday March 18, 2024 @01:48PM (#39747567)
The funny thing is that most of the CYA cookie banners... are in themselves GDPR violations
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by rcxdude on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:37AM (#39744307)
I think a heck of a lot of smaller sites just cargo-cult the pop-up. Either because they misunderstand the law or because of overly cautious lawyers.
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by account42 on Monday March 18, 2024 @10:53AM (#39745401)
Or because of FUD from people interested in undermining privacy protections.
Re:Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law by jlokier on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:39AM (#39744343)
Aggregate data is not considered personal data by the GDPR.

Managers and everyone else can have charts and graphs without retaining personal data.

The processing of personal data prior to anonymisation to turn it into aggregate data, that part needs protection. But you can do it in a variety of ways that don't require personally invasive tracking.