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Re:Super Micro Computer has gone from an obscure server make... by fragmede on Sunday March 17, 2024 @02:10PM (#39736558)
you know the saying; the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent and all that. turns out P/E ratios determine a theoretical floor for the price, but as we've seen with Tsla and crypto, this shits all vibes anyway. AI isn't slowing down, or going to go anywhere, so these stocks, overvalued though you might see them, aren't going to go down anytime soon, in my opinion, so while what your say is true, NVDA and smci are safe to hold. the real question is what's going on with tsmc and mu, given their proximity to NVDA, and their lack of a pop.
Re:Super Micro Computer has gone from an obscure server make... by epolanski on Sunday March 17, 2024 @03:35PM (#39737303)
It's interesting you mention Tesla, because their sales clearly show that the growth expectation was not realistic.

And in case of Nvidia it's even much worse.

In order for Nvidia to be worth a decent premium over the yield of some index fund like VOO (you're taking much more risk), it has to grow in the order of 42% per year for a decade in revenue.

There's no such amounts of money to be spent in hardware, it's lunacy.

Not even the other tech giants combined have even a small part of the money required for such growth.

And on top of that, this is a very dynamic sector where any competitor, technological breakthrough can make you the new IBM.

Prices like Nvidia were highly overvalued but understandable with a stretch of imagination of 25% growth for a decade when it was 300$. I could almost see it and would've still concluded it was an unlikely outcome and risk/reward ratio was not there.

But now we long past that mark and in the territory of insane expectations and high premiums paid with a very high risk.

Re:Super Micro Computer has gone from an obscure server make... by mschuster91 on Sunday March 17, 2024 @04:04PM (#39737549)
> There's no such amounts of money to be spent in hardware, it's lunacy.

Oh, money there is. NVIDIA is selling shovels to hordes of people searching for gold... first it was cr*ptoc*in miners, now it's billion dollar companies in the search for AGI. But unlike shovels that anyone with access to iron, a fire and a hammer can make, there are only five companies on this planet that can design the chips in the first place: Google and Amazon (who don't sell to outsiders), Intel (who has other, more pressing issues than to design AI training accelerators), AMD (who has the chops on the hardware design side but seems to be completely unable to get the software side stable enough that people would be even willing to look at it) and NVIDIA.

And to make the issue worse, there are only three fab houses who can physically manufacture the chips: TSMC, Samsung and Intel... TSMC is all but booked out already, Samsung is nowhere near their level, and Intel both doesn't do fab jobs for outsiders and has completely botched their new nodes for years now.

There is just no way anyone can outsmart NVIDIA at that point, and demand is only going to increase in pretty nasty bidding wars.

Re:Super Micro Computer has gone from an obscure server make... by matwood on Sunday March 17, 2024 @04:30PM (#39737766)
> Oh, money there is.

Spot on. Nvidia can't even meet all existing demand right now.

https://fortune.com/2024/02/21/nvidia-earnings-ceo-jensen-hu...

Re:Super Micro Computer has gone from an obscure server make... by bluGill on Sunday March 17, 2024 @04:49PM (#39737928)
Money there is for sure, the claim though is the slightly different 'there isn't that much'. I don't know who is right, but it is the imporant question if you are investing long term.
Re:Super Micro Computer has gone from an obscure server make... by epolanski on Sunday March 17, 2024 @07:24PM (#39738987)
It's 2T+ in revenue in a decade. That's where 42% growth starting from today's 60B leads you.

That's all of Microsoft, Apple, etc, etc revenue combined all being spent in GPUs at 50% margin. It's not realistic.

You're taking a bet where risk/reward is just against the investor.

Re:Super Micro Computer has gone from an obscure server make... by kjreact on Sunday March 17, 2024 @09:13PM (#39739616)
Why are you using the metric of annual revenues must equal market capitalization to determine whether a company is overvalued? And why use revenue instead of earnings?

Currently if NVDA can double their earnings next year they’d have a P/E ratio similar to MSFT. I think many investors believe they can reach this target hence the high valuation.

Whether NVDA will continue to maintain this level of profit for the coming decade is another issue.

Re:Super Micro Computer has gone from an obscure server make... by epolanski on Sunday March 17, 2024 @07:20PM (#39738956)
None of what you said denies any of my conclusions: expecting Nvidia to grow at a 40%+ rate for a decade is ludicrous.

Any of your arguments has been done about leaders like Cisco, Intel or Tesla that balooned to valuations that did not meet reality regardless of those companies in fact doing well, the revenue and growth expectations were just asinine and void of basic math.

There's no such thing as infinite demand growth and infinitely deep pockets, let alone margins staying that good for so long (and again the aforementioned companies are examples of the phenomenon).

You will likely do much better investing in VOO today than buying Nvidia, let alone having a much better risk/reward ratio.

Re:Super Micro Computer has gone from an obscure server make... by solumunus on Sunday March 17, 2024 @02:21PM (#39736649)
Currently TSM isn’t guiding much growth, I would guess we see an uptick in guidance in their next earnings report.
Re:Super Micro Computer has gone from an obscure server make... by _zoltan_ on Sunday March 17, 2024 @03:20PM (#39737177)
they report earnings monthly.
Re:Super Micro Computer has gone from an obscure server make... by solumunus on Tuesday March 19, 2024 @04:22AM (#39753834)
They report some things monthly and they do a full earnings report quarterly.