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Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by ortusdux on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @10:22AM (#39691556)
Steve Jobs:

"It turns out the same thing can happen in technology companies that get monopolies, like IBM or Xerox. If you were a product person at IBM or Xerox, so you make a better copier or computer. So what? When you have monopoly market share, the company's not any more successful.

So the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, and they end up running the companies. And the product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products. The product sensibility and the product genius that brought them to that monopolistic position gets rotted out by people running these companies that have no conception of a good product versus a bad product.

They have no conception of the craftsmanship that's required to take a good idea and turn it into a good product. And they really have no feeling in their hearts, usually, about wanting to really help the customers."

Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by elromulous on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @10:25AM (#39691585)
Wouldn't this apply to today's Apple?
Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by quesera on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @12:53PM (#39694003)
I don't think so.

The examples of IBM and Xerox were truly dominant in their day.

I'm not going to get into the definition of "monopoly" here. But there's a reason for the "No one ever got fired for buying IBM" quote, and there's a reason that "Xerox" is/was basically synonymous with "photocopy". No one calls an Android device an "iPhone".

Apple captures basically 100% of the market excitement and profit, but not sales or penetration. Apple is not dominant anywhere near what IBM and Xerox were.

So, for me this fails the test of ~"sales and marketing running the company and not bringing forward great new products". Apple is still delivering.

Apple is not all things to all people -- but no one is without choice. I think Apple, and Apple customers, are happy with Apple.

Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by ortusdux on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @10:26AM (#39691602)
Arguably yes. I'll note that the quote was from 1995 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs:_The_Lost_Interview
Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by jmondi on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @10:29AM (#39691629)
If Apple was a monopoly, sure. But Apple is not a monopoly.
Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by FireBeyond on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @11:30AM (#39692546)
People so eager to defend Apple from "monopoly" that they completely ignore the point, which is equally valid when you are not a monopoly but have a extremely sturdy market penetration.
Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by zeroonetwothree on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @10:26AM (#39691601)
How is Apple a monopoly?
Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by smallmancontrov on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @10:50AM (#39691890)
In the "gigantic moats with minimal connection to product quality" sense. The app store and rich messaging have clear two-sided-market dynamics and they own a bunch of customer photo albums too.

Anticompetitive market structure is bad for consumers loooong before it results in an actual literal "only one company in a broadly defined niche" monopoly.

Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by nativeit on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @10:35AM (#39691700)
In much the same way Boeing is—they are one of only two options.
Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by kaesar14 on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @11:08AM (#39692161)
Not sure I buy that. They're one of only two options in operating system but one of many in hardware models. They're much less able to win regulatory capture being a far less regulated industry and in a consumer market.
Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by Filligree on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @11:27AM (#39692474)
Pray tell, what are my options in hardware if I want a laptop with a good (Apple-level) touchpad, battery life, screen and performance?

You could argue I'm just saying they're high quality, which may be true, but the software has been degrading and I have no options if I value openness _and_ quality.

Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by kaesar14 on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @11:43AM (#39692777)
How is being the only good company making laptops a monopoly? Seems like you recognized that point in your second paragraph but bears repeating how ridiculous of a comparison to Boeing that is
Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by panick21_ on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @08:53PM (#39699434)
I don't give a shit about touchpads. Apple for the majority of its history didn't have superior performance and even today they have some product that are under-powered in regards to ram.

I can flip it and mention features that Apple products don't have that I like.

But this isn't actually an argument for monopoly. That just an argument that you like a company more then the other.

Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by dghlsakjg on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @01:29PM (#39694535)
That's pretty much the textbook definition of an oligopoly which is explicitly not a monopoly.
Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by RyanHamilton on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @11:36AM (#39692639)
Re:United Airlines tells Boeing to stop building Max 10s and... by nradov on Wednesday March 13, 2024 @11:08AM (#39692168)
What's your point? During the recent troubles at Boeing, very few of their top executives came from sales and marketing backgrounds. The commercial airliner business is completely unlike the consumer electronics or office automation businesses. Airliner customers are a lot more sophisticated and care deeply about product quality issues which impact their own businesses.