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Re:Why Tolkien Hated Dune by 627467 on Friday March 08, 2024 @04:21PM (#39646643)
> Deontology vs Consequentialism

How deontologists learn to change their mind (adapt to change) if they prevent themselves from experiment to see the consequences?

Re:Why Tolkien Hated Dune by tlb on Friday March 08, 2024 @05:36PM (#39647347)
Most virtues aren't really suitable for self-experimentation, because the effects take a lifetime to accumulate. Consider loyalty, a key virtue in Tolkien's books. You can't just A/B test different levels of loyalty so see which has better consequences for you. Loyalty is established over many years, and the benefits come back to you over many decades, so it's not something you can experiment with in your own lifetime.

It's like long-term health. You can't determine whether cigarettes are good or bad for your longevity by any self-experiment. You can only look at historical data on others.

Likewise, deontologists look at other people's lives to decide which virtues seem worth adopting. It's very time-consuming, because people don't reliably self-report their own virtues. The only way to know if someone is loyal or not is by observing, over a big chunk of their life, how they treat people around them. You have to know a lot of people quite well for a long time to make reliable observations on how virtues affect people's lives.

Since you have to adopt virtues fairly young to get the benefit of them, you don't have time for all this observation. The best you can do is to read the books of wise elders and adopt the virtues they agree on.

Re:Why Tolkien Hated Dune by tiberious726 on Saturday March 09, 2024 @10:15AM (#39652104)
Deontology is not empirical, there is no looking for effects in others lives. Deontology holds that certain things can be determined to be right or wrong from the sheer logic of action. See Kant's groundwork of the metaphysics of morals for an introduction.
Re:Why Tolkien Hated Dune by marginalia_nu on Friday March 08, 2024 @05:33PM (#39647322)
I don't think there is much of a contradiction, as deontologists do not claim perfect knowledge.

Discovering new facts that throw new light on the circumstances of old actions doesn't mean e.g. an evil action became good, but that it was revealed as having been such all along.

Re:Why Tolkien Hated Dune by marcosdumay on Friday March 08, 2024 @04:27PM (#39646705)
By principle, deontologists should be completely close for changing.

On practice, nobody is completely either one of those.

Re:Why Tolkien Hated Dune by scotty79 on Friday March 08, 2024 @08:41PM (#39648654)
They just stick to what they learned in childhood, then they die and the next generation has their own bit different moral truths they stick to.