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Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by the_common_man on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:21PM (#39644118)
I don't understand the hate for TSA. Sure, it can be better. But does anyone dare board a plane when none of the passengers have been screened?
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by bombcar on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:24PM (#39644158)
If said plane is the only unscreened flight out of Tel-Aviv? Maybe I'd have some reservations.

But if all flights were completely unscreened? It wouldn't change what or when I fly.

I already board unscreened trains and busses quite often.

Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by sneed_chucker on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:38PM (#39644386)
When trains or buses crash, the majority of the passengers survive in most cases.

When commercial airliners crash, usually everyone on board dies.

Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by Dudhbbh3343 on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:50PM (#39644539)
High speed trains in Japan have no screening at all. I imagine a well-placed bomb going off could have a similar number of casualties.
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by bombcar on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:52PM (#39644579)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago_de_Compostela_derailm...

It could almost certainly be extremely deadly if it happens. Man, these were the two main ones I recall - Spain has had some bad luck.

Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by saagarjha on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:33PM (#39644309)
With that username, I’m not sure I’d want to join you :P
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by bombcar on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:51PM (#39644552)
Always bring a bomb with you on the plane - the chance there are two bombs on the plane is almost infinitely small!
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by deadbabe on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:42PM (#39644434)
Busses and trains aren’t good targets for terrorism.

You blow up a bus, maybe no one really cares except the locals to the area where the bus blew up.

A plane cuts through many different social classes and nationalities, putting them all in one place and making a large amount of people imagine themselves as the potential victim.

Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by eat_veggies on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:23PM (#39644140)
yes, the way people dared to board planes pre-9/11, and the way people dare to board trains, buses, and ferries today.
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by drstewart on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:40PM (#39644418)
You think people weren't screened pre 9/11? Are you under 24 years old by any chance?
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by lowbloodsugar on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:49PM (#39644523)
Literally just walked up to the gate. Only thing was the gate attendant checked your ID against the ticket. That was all. No metal detectors. No screening. Just walk up to the gate an get on. One time my mate forgot his drivers license, and missed the flight. So harsh!
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by drstewart on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:51PM (#39644567)
Yeah, no, you're definitely either under 24 or over 80.
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by buggy6257 on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:25PM (#39644180)
We…we did. For 87 years of air travel we did. Went pretty darn good. People seemed to have fun with it. They even looked forward to flights.

What an odd comment.

Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by throwway120385 on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:31PM (#39644281)
I flew the final 6 years of that period and enjoyed flying. Post-9/11 flying sucks and is a huge drag. If you're too young to have experienced pre-9/11 airports then you really don't know what you're missing. When I was little they let me see the cockpit in flight, and the flight attendants would bring me little snacks on late flights.

It was a totally different experience versus being crammed into a flying bus.

Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by drstewart on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:41PM (#39644427)
It turns out being a kid that gets things for free is pretty nice.

Now compare the money your parents paid for your little vacations back then to a flight nowadays.

Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by throwway120385 on Friday March 08, 2024 @03:17PM (#39645845)
What are you trying to tell me? That the airport and airline experience isn't any different?
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by WrongAssumption on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:43PM (#39644448)
Did we? Between 1968-1972 there were 130 hijackings in the US alone. In 1973 the FAA required passenger screening (I don’t know why people are saying screening began in 2001, the TSA was formed and updated screening procedures, but people were definitely already being screened).

From 1973 on, hijacking’s dropped considerably. Since 2001 there have been no hijackings in the US.

Your comment is the odd one.

Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by harkinian on Friday March 08, 2024 @04:39PM (#39646821)
Yeah, I don't know if screening was the best solution and don't think the post-9/11 rules make sense, but there was clearly a problem in the past that got solved by screening. Also, nowadays we gotta make sure well-intended passengers don't have a Samsung Note.
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by pxeboot on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:31PM (#39644284)
I remember flying pre-9/11. There was still a security checkpoint with metal detectors. It was run by the airport instead of the feds.
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by pramsey on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:36PM (#39644356)
Even further back, before the hijacking spree of the 70s, when I was a kid I remember our local airport had no division between ground side and air side. You just got out of your car, walked to the gate, and they checked your boarding pass. This would be in the late 1970s, it was a remote city, so probably the transition to a "secure boarding area" was later than in the big cities.
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by pramsey on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:37PM (#39644370)
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by UniverseHacker on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:32PM (#39644296)
Absolutely I would. Most other countries have little or no screening and are just fine.

It's not a realistic risk to be concerned about... it's just not worth the hassle trying to mitigate something that is orders of magnitude less of a deal than other easier to mitigate risks.

Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by someuser2345 on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:30PM (#39644249)
Why not? Are you afraid of riding a train, since none of the passengers have been screened?
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by lfmunoz4 on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:30PM (#39644252)
99 percent of people can easily be pre-screened as not a threat.
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by hadlock on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:31PM (#39644266)
Security was handled (owned) by airports since the dawn of time. Airports with high risk (JFK) had higher security, airports with lower security (SAT). Airports hired typical staff from the local community and you would go through a metal detector and someone would X-Ray your luggage to make sure there were no obvious bombs in there. Your family could meet you at the gate.

Originally when the TSA was invented, airports were allowed to do their own security, TSA was optional. Now, airports that already have TSA are not allowed to provide their own security, it is mandatory they hire federal union employees.

WHY is it necessary for municipal airports to hire federal union employees? Airports know their own local risk factor and can adequately manage those employees. Airports want their passengers to have a good experience, so that they come back. This is why they pay big bucks for rennovations, why they have the bad-ok-good-better-best colored buttons in the restrooms and everything else.

The airport has virtually no control over the staff running security. They can't overschedule employees for busy times and holidays, they're beholden to what the TSA does.

And yeah, they do regular tests of the TSA to see how much contraband they can slip past security. TSA regularly fails these tests/audits.

The rest of the world does not deal with the level of security as american airports, and nobody else is having problems. US airports are still running at/above 9/11 security levels... why? In most countries you aren't required to take off your shoes or walk through anything more invasive than a simple metal detector.

1. Abolish the TSA. Allow local airports to hire and manage their own staff (currently not allowed) 2. Adjust minimum standards up and down based on current thread level (don't force people wearing flip flops to take off their shoes)

TSA was a huge mistake and is absolutely security theater. Every other country in the world does a better job of managing risk at airports than the US.

Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by xboxnolifes on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:23PM (#39644139)
Tons of people did dare in the past, and also continue to dare with regards to other transit.
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by Sargos on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:33PM (#39644304)
You must be terrified of taking the subway
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by harkinian on Friday March 08, 2024 @04:05PM (#39646484)
Well, I am but for other reasons because it's BART. I'll gladly take an unscreened flight.
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by harkinian on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:26PM (#39644187)
I'll board one
Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by groby_b on Friday March 08, 2024 @01:39PM (#39644396)
Oh please.

If you have money, you buy Pre+Clear+Global Entry. The "screening process" is nil (three simplistic questions for Global Entry).

That leaves the bag inspections - and I can tell you that at least for the Pre checkins, they're not exactly enforcing e.g. the weird liquid rules. (And there are plenty of articles showing they're not super-great at finding guns, easier)

And yet, it seems air traffic is mostly threatened by carriers & Boeing implementing cost savings to enrich execs.

Also, we did just fine pre-2001, and it's highly doubtful the TSA would've prevented 9/11. So, what exactly does it buy us, outside of an employment program that mostly enriches folks supplying TSA equipment?

Re:Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theate... by Ancapistani on Saturday March 09, 2024 @02:32AM (#39650120)
> But does anyone dare board a plane when none of the passengers have been screened?

Yes. Without hesitation, yes.

Americans learned a lesson on 9/11/01. Prior to that, almost all hijackings resulted in the eventual release of the passengers. No one had ever hijacked a plane in the US and flown it into a building before. There was no real reason to fight back if doing so put you at risk.

After 9/11/01, the default assumption to the hijacking of an American airliner can only be that everyone on board is going to die, along with an unknown number of people on the ground. That change in perspective significantly alters the likely outcome.

If someone tried to hijack an airliner in 2024 with a knife - or even a gun - I would be highly surprised if, at the end of the day, more injuries were caused by the attacker than from the scramble of people jumping on top of them to subdue them.

The problems TSA was nominally created to solve simply no longer exist. Screen luggage for explosive, maybe walk people through an x-ray if the airline wants that, and move on with life.