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Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by chimeracoder on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:05AM (#39641654)
> I think that complaint is secondary to fears of China gathering massive amounts of data on US citizens and having the power to influence what content they are exposed to.

We already know that Facebook does the same, and we already know for a fact that they have wielded this power against the public interest. Focusing on the nationality is a red herring - a US-based company can be just as adversarial as a foreign one.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by quickslowdown on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:26AM (#39641887)
Nobody's giving Facebook a free pass, but this shouldn't be a hard concept to understand. Yes, the fact that TikTok is based on China and has very close ties to their government, one of our adversities,is the problem here. The amount & type data both Facebook & TikTok collect is egregious, but that's not the point of any of this.
Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by dpkirchner on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:36AM (#39642019)
China is only an adversary if you ignore the hundreds of billions of dollars in trade we have between us. If we were serious about treating China as an adversary or enemy, we'd address trade way before we'd bother with toy sites like TikTok.
Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by milkhead on Friday March 08, 2024 @11:28AM (#39642676)
A big reason that the US trades so much with China is because they are an adversary. It's a similar concept to nuclear MAD doctrine. Mutual Assured Economic destruction for both of the countries if there is a war.
Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by tivert on Friday March 08, 2024 @04:41PM (#39646859)
> A big reason that the US trades so much with China is because they are an adversary. It's a similar concept to nuclear MAD doctrine. Mutual Assured Economic destruction for both of the countries if there is a war.

No, that's wrong. It sounds like a regurgitated libertarian talking point/post-hoc justification, not actual history.

The reason the US trades so much with China is that, during its over-confident post Cold War high, it convinced itself that economic liberalization would inevitably bring political liberalization. That theory has been proven wrong, and China has shown you can have capitalism without democracy.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by tivert on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:49AM (#39642159)
> China is only an adversary if you ignore the hundreds of billions of dollars in trade we have between us. If we were serious about treating China as an adversary or enemy, we'd address trade way before we'd bother with toy sites like TikTok.

You're trying to make perfect be the enemy of the good.

The US and Western countries, for the last several decades, have engaged in a foolish and deluded trade policy with China. It's going to be a long and difficult process to partially undo that mistake. Though is done, they'll never be able to take back the technology, trade secrets, and know-how they let go.

Dealing with the TikTok problem is low-hanging fruit, in comparison. You reach for the low-hanging fruit first.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by dpkirchner on Friday March 08, 2024 @11:09AM (#39642421)
> Dealing with the TikTok problem is low-hanging fruit, in comparison. You reach for the low-hanging fruit first.

In this case it appears we're reaching for the low-hanging fruit because it makes easy headlines, has low political risk, and won't change the status quo (Congress won't be successful in their stated goals). It's a distraction from real problems.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by tivert on Friday March 08, 2024 @04:34PM (#39646764)
> In this case it appears we're reaching for the low-hanging fruit because it makes easy headlines, has low political risk

I don't think so. That honestly just sounds like a baseless appeal to cynicism.

And as for "low political risk," didn't they just get their phone lines jammed with complaints?

> and won't change the status quo (Congress won't be successful in their stated goals)

What goals are those? It seems like their big goal is to remove a popular social network from the control of an adversary nation, and this bill would do that.

IIRC, CIFUS successful forced the Chinese to divest Grindr. I don't see why this divestment would be out of reach.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/6/21168079/grindr-sold-chine...

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by dpkirchner on Friday March 08, 2024 @05:21PM (#39647213)
> And as for "low political risk," didn't they just get their phone lines jammed with complaints?

Sure, and how many people are going to change their votes on the issue? Are they going to take it more seriously than immigration policy, abortion rights, support for Israel, the actual issue of our trade deficit with China, etc? I sincerely doubt it. It's pure distraction. They can point to it and claim they're taking the Chinese threat seriously.

> IIRC, CIFUS successful forced the Chinese to divest Grindr. I don't see why this divestment would be out of reach.

They invested about $250M, most of which was only a year before they sold it for $600M. They could have fought harder but I doubt they were too upset about that massive, quick profit. TikTok has a lot more at stake -- although who knows, maybe they'll find someone with extremely deep pockets.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by quickslowdown on Friday March 08, 2024 @07:41PM (#39648238)
I disagree. I don't care how the money flows, their actions are adversarial, and if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it means I don't have to put much effort into replying to obnoxious contrarian comments masquerading as a respectable point on Hackernews.
Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by angryasian on Friday March 08, 2024 @11:09AM (#39642432)
Lets not be Naive and think that the massive data collection of FB data isn't available because of their methods. Cambridge Analytica proved the possibilities.

This has less to do with data, and more about xenophobia.

Create data privacy laws is the only way to protect the US

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by bequanna on Friday March 08, 2024 @11:37AM (#39642764)
Being concerned about China is not xenophobia.

We're talking about a nation who at worst is our enemy and at best a geopolitical foe who is harvesting massive amounts of data to use for purposes which are much worse than targeted ads.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by angryasian on Friday March 08, 2024 @12:12PM (#39643189)
Really they are the worst enemy when we literally have an invasion of Ukraine threatning all of NATO ?? Your response sounds like xenophobia.

Your only threat is they are using US platforms to target ads??

make it make sense

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by crtasm on Friday March 08, 2024 @12:55PM (#39643725)
I think you've misread. "a nation who at worst is our enemy", not "a nation who is our worst enemy".

Also "_purposes which are much worse than_ targeted ads".

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by angryasian on Friday March 08, 2024 @08:57PM (#39648765)
no I read it, and its all xeno rhetoric
Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by crtasm on Monday March 11, 2024 @09:15AM (#39667824)
Then you're deliberately misrepresenting what they said. Please don't do that.
Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by mathgradthrow on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:09AM (#39641704)
Stop equivocating. Facebook is under US jurisdiction. Tiktok is not.
Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by jerojero on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:41AM (#39642078)
Wasn't Facebook used by russian intelligence to manipulate the 2016 elections?

Does it even matter that it's under US jurisdiction if it can be misused by foreign actors without any real consequences? Meta just uses its lobbying to keep itself without harm.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by chimeracoder on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:16AM (#39641769)
> Stop equivocating. Facebook is under US jurisdiction. Tiktok is not.

This is straight-up factually incorrect.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by lost_womble on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:22AM (#39641841)
Imagine saying something this wrong this confidently.
Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by tivert on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:28AM (#39641911)
> Imagine saying something this wrong this confidently.

How is it wrong? Are you making a super-big deal that, say, TikTok has some US-registered LLC's or something?

What ultimately matters is who owns and controls it, and whose jurisdiction they're under.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by readyman on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:14AM (#39641755)
Facebook is used to keep in touch with loved ones. Tik Tok is not. This is a very significant factor in sentiment for one vs the other.
Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by tivert on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:11AM (#39641734)
> Focusing on the nationality is a red herring - a US-based company can be just as adversarial as a foreign one.

Come on, you can't be serious. Even considered at a pretty abstract and uninformed level, it's clear even the most "adversarial" domestic company would not go places an adversarial foreign company would.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by chimeracoder on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:15AM (#39641760)
> Even considered at a pretty abstract and uninformed level, it's clear even the most "adversarial" domestic company would not go places an adversarial foreign company would.

Between TikTok and Facebook, one has already gone demonstrably further than the other, and it's not TikTok.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by tivert on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:23AM (#39641851)
> Between TikTok and Facebook, one has already gone demonstrably further than the other, and it's not TikTok.

This is geopolitics, not criminal law. It's not about what was done, but about what could be done.

Whatever specific past actions of Facebook or TikTok that you're vaguely gesturing at don't matter.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by bequanna on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:12AM (#39641736)
Except it isn't the same.

China is a geopolitical foe who is quite serious about espionage. We don't have to make it easy for them.

Re:TikTok Stunt Motivates Lawmakers to Take on the App by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:09AM (#39641702)
We don't fucking care that Facebook or other US companies do the same. We care when it's a front of the Chinese communist government which is growing more adversarial by the day. If you don't think they're a front of the Chinese government then you haven't been paying attention to the weekly reports on China for the last few years.