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Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by bayindirh on Thursday March 07, 2024 @02:26AM (#39626149)
"Works on my machine" is never a good argument for something AFAICS. There are still many edge cases and paper cuts with many Free and Open Source applications.

Yes, it'll push developers a little harder, but we will see tons of complaints in the beginning. This will take another ~2-3 years to be sorted out. While X11's codebase is known for its state, it's working well at this point.

Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by petepete on Thursday March 07, 2024 @04:29AM (#39626970)
If it was just me then yeah.

Thankfully enough people have made it for Fedora to be convinced it's a good idea. Other distros will soon follow (as always) and X11 will wither. Finally.

Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by bayindirh on Thursday March 07, 2024 @04:36AM (#39627012)
I'm member of other communities and at least one person is talking about something not working on Wayland, but working on X11, so we still have ~2-3 (up to 5) years.

X11 will not wither overnight. There are still things which are very dependent on X11. Remote connections comes to my mind, for example.

Lastly, not all distributions are followers. Debian (testing at least), installs Wayland by default, but not enables it. It's installed on my system for a couple of years now.

Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by petepete on Thursday March 07, 2024 @05:41AM (#39627387)
> I'm member of other communities and at least one person is talking about something not working on Wayland, but working on X11, so we still have ~2-3 (up to 5) years.

Thankfully I don't have to, I want shiny new software thanks.

> Remote connections comes to my mind, for example.

Nobody uses them any more.

Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by bayindirh on Thursday March 07, 2024 @05:44AM (#39627415)
> Thankfully I don't have to, I want shiny new software thanks.

That's a choice. I prefer uptime more, for example. I use boring technology to create fun things.

> Nobody uses them any more.

You should follow X2Go users' & OpenOnDemand mailing lists. They're very heavily used by some significant groups (e.g. scientists).

Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by toyg on Thursday March 07, 2024 @06:37AM (#39627798)
Remote connections are dead, Netcraft confirms.
Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by bayindirh on Thursday March 07, 2024 @08:53AM (#39629060)
They lied to you.
Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by toyg on Thursday March 07, 2024 @08:56AM (#39629101)
I fear my slashdot joke was not appreciated. Infamously, a post on Slashdot once stated (probably 20 years ago) "OpenBSD is dead, Netcraft confirms" - Netcraft's methods were then widely ridiculed, and obviously OpenBSD continues to be very much alive to this day.
Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by bayindirh on Thursday March 07, 2024 @09:08AM (#39629230)
I remember reading that, but failed to make the connection (hah!). Probably a bit too tired from physical sysadmin work.
Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by NoGravitas on Thursday March 07, 2024 @09:06AM (#39629204)
You can run remote applications with Wayland now: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterp...

There is also a VNC server for fullscreen sessions (only supports wlroots compositors for now): https://github.com/any1/wayvnc

Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by Dalewyn on Thursday March 07, 2024 @03:09AM (#39626443)
Since Fedora is ostensibly the bleeding edge distro second only to the likes of Arch, it seems reasonable for the dev nudging to start(?) happen(ing?) there.
Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by NekkoDroid on Thursday March 07, 2024 @04:35AM (#39627005)
I get where you are coming from with the bleeding edge comment, but Arch is not really experimental levels of cutting edge, they just try to follow upstream as close as possible. Fedora OTOH is happy to do these kinda non-upstream stuff to actually bring stuff forward.
Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by NoGravitas on Thursday March 07, 2024 @09:07AM (#39629214)
Fedora essentially is upstream, when it comes to desktop Linux.
Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by Zetaphor on Thursday March 07, 2024 @03:21AM (#39626522)
People seem to either ignore or just not be aware of this. Fedora has always been the first mover. If that's not what you want you should be using a different distro. Ubuntu will be supporting an LTS version with X11 for many more years.
Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by bayindirh on Thursday March 07, 2024 @03:25AM (#39626551)
Personally I'm very aware, and not against that. Just wanted to point out that a single "I'm running it without problems for years" experience is not a high quality signal for state of any piece of software.

I have experienced "very fun" problems with a "supported NVIDIA card with official drivers that support that card", while people said that they are using theirs without any problems for years.

Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by toyg on Thursday March 07, 2024 @06:35AM (#39627782)
> This will take another ~2-3 years to be sorted out.

Lol, I almost spit my coffee all over the keyboard... That timeframe is wildly unrealistic.

It will take the best part of a decade from the time all major distros switch their defaults (i.e. RedHat, Debian, Ubuntu, SuSE) to get to a point that could be considered stable (i.e. where the average user won't encounter breakage as soon as they run an app that was not part of the default install). And even then, lots of debris will be left floating, because nobody is going to update some small app from 2005 or even old releases of QT and GTK.

The Linux desktop is currently going through its Vista moment, and it's going to go on for a very long time.

Re:Dropping GNOME's X11 session approved for Fedora 41 by bayindirh on Thursday March 07, 2024 @08:53AM (#39629054)
Be careful. Space cadet keyboards are rare and expensive.

I don't know about RedHat, but Debian already ships Wayland in Testing. Maybe current stable also has in its default installation I need to check. Tons of people are using it on Ubuntu, too.

So while ironing out everything will take even more than that, I assume a full decade starting today, first 90% will take ~2-3 years. As we know, second 90% doesn't really finish. Even today, X11 can be broken in interesting ways.

OTOH, there'll be always some debris left. It's same for Windows and macOS, too. Only difference is, Windows ships its old versions as WoW subsystems or invisible diversions for more than two decades now.

People always see the applications they use, but there's another world where people update extremely old programs or develop shims to keep them working. Linux ecosystem is an elephant now. And since people can see and feel different parts of it, everybody tells something different about it. It's much more complex and layered than it seems.

Vista moment? Even KDE4.x was better than that thing with all its bugs. Hah.