Re:Dada, an Experiement by the Creators of Rust
by rob74 on Wednesday March 06, 2024 @09:47AM
(#39616499)
The "singular they" has been a thing in English for a long time (since the 14th century according to Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they). I'm a non-native speaker as well, and wasn't taught about it in school either (maybe that has changed in the meantime?). The first time I consciously noticed it is probably in the Sting song If You Love Somebody Set Them Free (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_You_Love_Somebody_Set_Them_...), which was his debut solo single, so is already quite old itself (1985, although I probably heard it later).
Re:Dada, an Experiement by the Creators of Rust
by moomin on Wednesday March 06, 2024 @10:10AM
(#39616759)
Yeah, it's been commonly used when the object (in the grammatical sense) would typically have a gender but it is unspecified. In fact, it's so common native English speakers don't even notice they're doing it. (Which produces a steady stream of unintentional humor from those pretending it isn't a thing.) The usage as a sign of respect for specific non-binary and other gender non-confirming people is more modern (2009 is apparently the first recorded example). Although to a great extent, it doesn't matter. Language evolves over time and dictionary definitions necessarily trail usage.
The wikipedia article is quite detailed and will probably supply more information that anyone particularly wanted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
Re:Dada, an Experiement by the Creators of Rust
by timeon on Wednesday March 06, 2024 @11:30AM
(#39617617)
There is also "singular you" in English.
Re:Dada, an Experiement by the Creators of Rust
by yodsanklai on Wednesday March 06, 2024 @10:12AM
(#39616787)
> Non-native-speaker take: I don't care, it just reads a bit "weird" as I learned English before and "theirs" was plural...
Non-native speaker too, I find it easier to adjust in English compared to my native language (French), probably because the language is less engrained in me. I embraced the English neutral pleural - it's even convenient - but I found myself a bit more annoyed with the so called French *écriture inclusive", such as "les étudiant.e.s sont fatigué.e.s". Not really pretty IMHO. We could find something better..
Re:Dada, an Experiement by the Creators of Rust
by subtra3t on Wednesday March 06, 2024 @11:53AM
(#39617897)
People who want others to ask them their pronouns before referring to them, what is your reason for doing so?
Re:Dada, an Experiement by the Creators of Rust
by dist-epoch on Wednesday March 06, 2024 @10:47AM
(#39617168)
> I learned English before and "theirs" was plural..
Its been done before. See royal plural
As long as the meaning of the quote isn't changed I couldn't care less and it seems very important to some people.
What I personally dislike though is the whole "Ask me my pronouns" thing... like "No, I don't care about your gender or sex, as long as I am not interested in a romantic relationship with you - just tell me how to call you and I'll do it, but more effort? No!"
To elaborate a bit more: I find the topic exhausting not because I hate freedom of choosing your own gender or anything like that, but because I personally do not care about your gender at all.
I don't care about your religion, your skin color, your culture, your sex, your gender... I care about individual people but I don't reduce them to a certain aspect of their existence.
Now I find the whole "Ask me my pronouns" exhausting and also rude because it puts pressure on me to ask you about a topic I am not interested in. Like: I get it, there is social pressure, I understand that you're not happy with certain social "norms" and developments. I totally get that and I guess we are on the same side for many of them, but I still do not care about your gender until I care about your gender. (And also, I don't live in your country probably, so your local politics may be of interest, but I still don't like being forced to talk about them before I can ask a genuine question on e.g. a technology topic ;))
Just write his/her/theirs... and I will respect your choice. I will not think less of you, nor will I put you on a pedestal for something I do not care about.