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Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by physicles on Thursday February 22, 2024 @12:39AM (#39463616)
Sometime in the last several years, it became possible to download a windows .iso from microsoft.com and use it in a VM ~forever without activating. (I don’t know the precise timing because I switched to linux in 2018)

Does anyone remember when this shift happened, and what was the justification? Has Microsoft given up on making money on end-user windows licenses, relying instead on OEM licenses and monetizing users with shitty ads?

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by ogurechny on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:02AM (#39464784)
It's not recent. Piracy has been a promotional channel for Windows for a long time.

When you use Windows, you don't use the alternatives, don't consider the alternatives, and don't change your habits, which makes one even more inclined to stick to Windows. That's why Microsoft is careful to not make it too hard to acquire a copy of Windows. (On the other hand, it makes it hard for hardware makers to offer anything else, and for businesses to switch or elude.) A regular user doesn't care about the OS anyway, and would follow any shepherd. As a wrapper to run browser and multimedia player, Linux was ready for desktop long ago — see famous anti-Linux stunts at Microsoft.

Moreover, the leaders today don't profit from software, they profit from data collection and control over their “free” services. The bigger the user numbers, the more money you can get, and when Windows activation can be done by typing some commands on a vanilla system, it is effectively “free” for everyone who wants to take it.

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by oohffyvfg on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:07AM (#39464832)
everyone can download windows 11 today, install, and never even activate.

you will see "not activated" or something on the bottom right. and you cannot change theme (you can still change it before you go online the first time, or via registry)

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by bobsmith432 on Thursday February 22, 2024 @01:29PM (#39471107)
The average user probably isn't reinstalling their OS anyways. They don't even really have to rely on this method anymore because I was born in 2008 and grew up with Windows. It actually kind of blew my mind when I realized all *nixes were case sensitive and that they didn't have the dir and cd commands by default, all I knew was how Windows did things and I'm still pretty used to it, as much as I wish I could trust it more but I've tried to lock down my main version (LTSC IoT 2021) as much as possible from MS data collection.
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by notpushkin on Thursday February 22, 2024 @02:10PM (#39471589)
nixes do actually have a cd command. I see your point though, I think the reason I'm on Linux now (well, currently macOS actually) is that I've switched way back in middle school or so.

Still, I think Windows nowadays is hostile towards both nix and old-time Windows users. I kinda wish ReactOS was more active so that people who are tied to Windows ecosystem have some sane alternative.

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by pompino on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:15AM (#39464527)
A quick google search reveals that no, Microsoft has not given up on making money on Windows - it generates billions of dollars of revenue. I don't know what you're referring to with the .ISO - I have never heard of this.
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by saagarjha on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:48AM (#39465089)
You can download the image from sites like https://uupdump.net/ and then convert them to an ISO.
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by exe34 on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:52AM (#39465115)
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by pompino on Thursday February 22, 2024 @01:16PM (#39470938)
It is not legal to use it without activating it indefinitely.
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by exe34 on Friday February 23, 2024 @06:36AM (#39479383)
I'm not a lawyer, my Google searches don't constitute legal advice.
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by cqqxo4zV46cp on Thursday February 22, 2024 @06:19AM (#39465546)
Interesting how you didn’t actually ‘quickly Google’ what GP was actually talking about.
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by pompino on Thursday February 22, 2024 @01:16PM (#39470929)
Its true that you are able to pirate windows. It is not legal to use it without activating it indefinitely.
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by daveoc64 on Thursday February 22, 2024 @06:39AM (#39465715)
You can download Windows 10 or Windows 11 from Microsoft for free without needing to input any licence keys.

If you install it without inputting a product key, it'll be more or less fully functional. There is no time limit to this.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows11

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by pompino on Thursday February 22, 2024 @01:16PM (#39470933)
Its true that you are able to pirate windows. It is not legal to use it without activating it indefinitely.
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by pipes on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:34AM (#39464650)
I remember this!!!

My memory is pretty terrible these days, but it might have been to allow testing different versions of internet explorer?

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by feitingen on Thursday February 22, 2024 @05:47AM (#39465376)
Yes, testing on Edge and Internet Explorer.

The VMs were discontinued recently.

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by mike_d on Thursday February 22, 2024 @01:03AM (#39463721)
It started as part of the modern.ie project, which would distribute Windows VMs to the primarily Mac using web developers at the time so they could test against Internet Explorer, countering the trend of just telling people to switch to Chrome if they complained about broken functionality.

The VMs were time locked I believe and would shut down after a few hours (at least the more recent ones do).

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by jorticka on Thursday February 22, 2024 @02:59AM (#39464435)
Today you can use it for 90 or 180 days.

But then you download a new one.

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by mavhc on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:15AM (#39464886)
It works for years
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by okl on Thursday February 22, 2024 @06:32AM (#39465652)
There is some builtin command that you could run to reset the counter. YMMV depending in Windows Version.

I think it was `slmgr -rearm`

Don't know why they would ship with this...

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by wkat4242 on Thursday February 22, 2024 @08:19AM (#39466614)
Yes but you can only rearm a couple of times. At least this is how it used to work
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by nikanj on Thursday February 22, 2024 @02:13AM (#39464135)
That is such a niche case, I’m not surprised they’re working on the honor system.

Running windows on bare metal still requires you to pay for it

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by alkonaut on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:24AM (#39464943)
> Running windows on bare metal still requires you to pay for it

Running a VM also requires you to pay for it. But it's the license that requires it, nothing in the software will stop you from using it.

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by temac on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:18AM (#39464542)
> Running windows on bare metal still requires you to pay for it

In the license yes, technically unlicensed windows actually works but you can’t e.g. change the desktop wallpaper. Kind of the same principle applies to the dev vm: it works fine (during its validity period) but it is not licensed for production use.

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by numpad0 on Thursday February 22, 2024 @05:14AM (#39465227)
Windows licensing don't always require individual license keys, and they just let you pass sometimes for some hardware configurations and sometimes using BIOS-provided keys.

I guess it's working as intended since it only refused to work with me in weird cases, and other times it was tolerable annoyances at time.

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by daveoc64 on Thursday February 22, 2024 @06:33AM (#39465663)
I know what you're referring to - I think other posters are confusing this with other initiatives Microsoft has like the VMs for web dev or preview releases.

In Windows XP, if the system wasn't activated after the initial grace period, you couldn't log in at all. That was obviously a bad UX when something has gone wrong.

Windows Vista and Windows 7 loosened things - allowing you to log in and use basic functionality.

Later versions of Windows (including Windows 10 and Windows 11) are more or less fully functional without activation (or even inputting a product key). Some personalisation features are disabled and you will have a watermark on the desktop, but other than that it's pretty normal. There is no time limit for this, unlike some of the free virtual machine images Microsoft provides for web dev testing purposes.

The only justification I can see is that it does provide a better user experience if there's an activation problem. With Windows 10 and 11 being free upgrades for a huge range of consumers, they know that most people have a licence anyway.

Windows 10 and 11 have also emphasised the digital licence model - installing without a product key. This requires that the system is functional without activation, so that you can get online to verify the digital licence.

Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by bombcar on Thursday February 22, 2024 @07:47AM (#39466313)
It’s to the point where I’ve seen the “please activate windows” overlay on things like self checkout machines.
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by bobsmith432 on Thursday February 22, 2024 @01:24PM (#39471024)
Windows 7 did actually restrict you from logging in at a certain point, I don't exactly remember when but you had to ignore activation for a good bit.
Re:Windows Product Activation (2001) by latexr on Thursday February 22, 2024 @08:22AM (#39466652)
> and what was the justification?

Considering all the data collection and dark patterns in Windows, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s more lucrative this way.

By the way, the thing you mention isn’t just for VMs, you can download Windows from Microsoft and install it on bare metal, having it run indefinitely as long as you’re OK with a watermark on the bottom right.