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Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by mavhc on Sunday February 18, 2024 @04:44PM (#39423717)
Can't make a cheap EV until you can make enough cheap batteries
Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by SR2Z on Sunday February 18, 2024 @05:17PM (#39424051)
No, that's not it. I refuse to buy a new Tesla because of some of the less user friendly (and IMO should be illegal) cost cutting measures:

- Horrible QA (https://www.equinoxevforum.com/threads/cracks-developing-in-...) - Extremely customer-hostile support strategies (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/08/angry-tesla-cust...) - Absurd cost-cutting measures/temporary bouts of insanity that cripple the UX of their cars: - Why does the Model 3/Y not have steering wheel stalks!? - Why did they try to offer the Model S with only a (bad) yoke!? - Why is there no HUD/gauge cluster on the Model 3/Y!?

I won't even get into just how ugly I (and anecdotally, many of my friends) find the Cybertruck; have you SEEN videos of people trying to actually use it as a truck and it completely failing to function offroad?

All of this stuff is directly attributable to Elon Musk. He's demanding a 25% stake in the company from his board - the same board that was found to be so absurdly stacked in his favor that his last pay package was thrown out.

Shareholders, at this point, should kick this guy out of Tesla and leave him to his true passions: shitposting on Twitter and SpaceX.

Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by IshKebab on Sunday February 18, 2024 @05:26PM (#39424118)
I agree, not only have they stopped making new sane cars, but they're actively making their existing cars worse!

* no indicator stalks

* no forward/reverse control

* apparently the automatic rain sensor doesn't work/exist (I think that's always been true; I just learned about it)

It very much reminds me of Apple's backwards steps with magsafe, touchbar and the keyboard. Maybe they'll come to their senses but I dunno...

Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by linsomniac on Sunday February 18, 2024 @09:25PM (#39425630)
>* apparently the automatic rain sensor doesn't work/exist (I think that's always been true; I just learned about it)

My Dec 2016 Model S has a "working" automatic rain sensor, it's just not as good as others I've seen. My '04 Audi A8 had a sensor so good that the first time it turned on I didn't know why, but then as I drove under some street lights I realized it had detected some really fine mist.

On the other hand, part of the reason I switched from the Audi to the Tesla was that I had $10k in broken "toys" on the Audi (1 of 2 bluetooth radios, 2 doorhandle auto unlockers, leak in the air suspension, steering wheel adjustment motor, etc), and part of what I wanted in the Tesla was something less expensive maintenance wise. So making more do less (using the cameras for auto wipers) makes sense.

Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by nikau on Sunday February 18, 2024 @11:07PM (#39426153)
Likelihood of air suspension failure approaches 100% regardless of brand.

I'd suspect the number of traditional rain sensor failures can probably be counted on one hand.

Tesla replace robust almost zero failure rate parts for cost only.

Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by linsomniac on Monday February 19, 2024 @08:04AM (#39429317)
Sure, the rain sensor might have near zero failures. I would think the rain sensor probably has failure rates on the order of bluetooth radio failure rates, but I had one of those fail. But what has truly 0 failures is to eliminate the rain sensor entirely. More importantly though, the rain sensor is just one of many, many toys the Audi had. Failure rates are multiplicative, so if you can remove 50% of your parts, you eliminate a lot of points of failure, plus a ton of extra wiring and electrical problems, plus the whole problem of integration.
Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by IshKebab on Monday February 19, 2024 @08:41AM (#39429607)
> But what has truly 0 failures is to eliminate the rain sensor entirely.

Only if you define "failure" as stops working. If you define it as not working, then it gives you a 100% failure rate.

Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by throwaway23305 on Tuesday February 20, 2024 @08:33AM (#39440997)
My '13 Audi has significant problems with the rain sensor. It turns on when it shouldn't, doesn't turn off when it should, and when I first start the car and it's already raining I have to turn the wipers off and on.

The best rain sensor I had was in my old Ford Mondeo '04.

Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by mavhc on Monday February 19, 2024 @04:34AM (#39427731)
Pretty sure it has forward/reverse control

It's all about cost cutting to make EVs cheaper to buy

Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by IshKebab on Monday February 19, 2024 @05:04PM (#39435379)
It doesn't. You have to use the touch screen. Yeah, really.
Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by mavhc on Tuesday February 20, 2024 @10:29AM (#39442440)
So it has a method to control forward and reverse? And a second method using AI, and a third using the capacitive buttons?
Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by thaumasiotes on Sunday February 18, 2024 @05:39PM (#39424234)
> the same board that was found to be so absurdly stacked in his favor that his last pay package was thrown out.

It was thrown out purely on the grounds that the judge didn't like it. The pay package was approved by Tesla's non-Musk general shareholders.

Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by JumpCrisscross on Sunday February 18, 2024 @06:45PM (#39424740)
> was thrown out purely on the grounds that the judge didn't like it

It was thrown out for technical but super legal reasons stemming from the Board’s lack of independence. Delaware judges don’t get to review pay packages approved by competently-run Boards.

Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by thaumasiotes on Sunday February 18, 2024 @10:05PM (#39425868)
The pay package wasn't determined by the Board. It was approved by them, sure. But they didn't set it. Why would it matter whether they had any independence?

If lack of independence is grounds for annulling the pay package, it's also grounds for annulling every other decision the Board ever approved. (It's the same Board!) That wasn't suggested; the grounds for annulling the pay package are different.

Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by nikau on Sunday February 18, 2024 @11:08PM (#39426157)
They set the upper limit, same thing
Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by paulryanrogers on Sunday February 18, 2024 @05:50PM (#39424328)
Thrown out by a judge in the most corpo state on the country. It was so embarrassingly badly handled they couldn't even rubber stamp it.
Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by thaumasiotes on Sunday February 18, 2024 @05:58PM (#39424390)
It was handled fine. If it had been badly handled, it would have been thrown out on those grounds. Instead, the grounds were "there is no reason for Elon Musk to be paid this much".
Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by kasey_junk on Sunday February 18, 2024 @08:17PM (#39425238)
No it really wasn’t. Delaware goes out of its way to trust corporate boards to make business decisions, especially around compensation.

In this case Tesla screwed up at least 3 different standards that are generally biased towards the company against shareholders. Only the last of those 3 standards has anything to do with relative compensation.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-01-31/elon-m...

Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by doctorpangloss on Sunday February 18, 2024 @05:36PM (#39424202)
The batteries could be imported from China.

Or maybe the whole car could be imported.

You could have a cheap EV in America with a stroke of a pen. Thats kind of the point of the article. I mean maybe not on purpose.

Re:How China Built BYD, Its Tesla Killer by zie on Sunday February 18, 2024 @10:01PM (#39425847)
It would have to be significantly cheaper than the credit. That might be very hard to come by.

You also have to accept that many people will go out of their way for tax credits, even if they are literally losing money to get it.