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Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by jwagenet on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:21PM (#39387209)
People want to do whatever they please on iPhone, but also expect Apple to create all the appropriate interfaces to accommodate them basically for free.
Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by robhlt on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:38PM (#39387464)
Apple has already done that for decades with macOS and its predecessors. The OS and its programming interfaces were always just included with the hardware purchase. Occasionally they would charge for a major OS upgrade, which Apple could always bring back if they can't survive without the app store tax revenue.
Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by jwagenet on Thursday February 15, 2024 @07:42PM (#39391495)
I’ve never used macOS or previous, but I recall early OSX updates cost money, like Windows, and the dev tools also had a fee.
Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by dagmx on Thursday February 15, 2024 @10:00PM (#39392635)
That was largely due to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes%E2%80%93Oxley_Act?wpr...

New features had to be paid for due to accounting requirements.

Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:24PM (#39387247)
>basically for free

iPhone costs ~$1000, with the highest profit margins on hardware plus AppStore out of any phone maker = for free lol.

Is this astroturfing HN loves to provide Apple for free? Apple fans will go out of their way to white knightly defend a trillion dollar company who can easily afford do implement any regulatory challenge, gaslighting you for having the audacity to hold Apple accountable to a high standards, as if they're some broke 3 person start-up scraping behind the couch cushions for money, when Apple is absolutely minted with the GDP of an entire country.

Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by LazarWolf_ on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:25PM (#39387267)
Design your own phone much?
Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:39PM (#39387471)
Did you?
Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by charcircuit on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:25PM (#39387268)
the os updates are
Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by lxgr on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:27PM (#39387293)
Then maybe they should charge a subscription fee for them if it's otherwise uneconomical to keep providing them.

iOS updates used to be paid in the past (due to Sarbanes-Oxley in the US)!

Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by Crosseye_Jack on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:32PM (#39387383)
Here in the UK, updates for the first iPhone were free, but (in the beginning) the major updates for the iPod touch used to be paid for.

(Unless you downloaded the update file from Apple's CDN directly and manually updated your iPod Touch via iTunes, not that I ever did that as that would be very naughty ;-))

Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:28PM (#39387317)
They're included in the initial purchase price and the cut apple takes from customers' appstore purchases. Nothing is free.
Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by HL33tibCe7 on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:29PM (#39387329)
On the contrary, in my experience it’s far more common that Apple haters will go out of their way to hate when it’s completely unreasonable. I can think of many such occasions in recent history.
Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:31PM (#39387375)
But what's your argument/counter-argument for this? Why is Apple right and apple "haters" wrong?

Because otherwise your comment is just another "hail Apple, fuck their critics for hating my favorite company".

[dead]
Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:43PM (#39387548)
Ever heard of averages?

The iPhone 15 starts ar MSRP 950 Euros in the EU or close to 1000 USD.

And the Pro base model starts at 1200 Euros and the Pro Max base model starts at 1440 Euros, 20% and 40% more than my Original estimation. There's also the cheaper models you can buy.

What's your point with this? Or do you just enjoy taking things super literally and spinning them into strawmen?

Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by nickthegreek on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:50PM (#39387637)
Make whatever excuses you want for posting misinformation. I am simply stating that your facts are wrong. I didnt build the strawman, you did when you used the cost of the iphone for the basis of your post and that cost was inaccurate.
Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:55PM (#39387733)
>Make whatever excuses you want for posting misinformation

By misinformation you mean using logic and pricing information directly from Apple's German store?

The one misinformed is you my friend. Please get help. The iPhone doesn't have a single fixed price but comes in many varieties at many price points, many well above 1000 bucks some below. I just picked an average price that seemed reasonable and not super high.

Please stop breaking HN rules with your comments.

Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by jwagenet on Thursday February 15, 2024 @07:36PM (#39391441)
The customer buys the hardware and the developer pays for a license to use api, sdk or whatever to access platform features. Game consoles, windows, processors. Yea maybe you can write your own stuff, but if you want access to those features, someone has to pay somewhere (no, I don’t think the hardware fee covers those costs). Software has got to be the only space where people think development time costs nothing and everything should be free.

And I don’t get why people who don’t like the Apple way care so much. There’s an alternative that’s more open. Go build your utopia there, if the lack of barriers makes it so easy.

Re:Apple confirms iOS 17.4 removes Home Screen web apps in t... by tokenizedtoast on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:53PM (#39400495)
do you think that ~25% fees on every in app transaction ( Total is 30% but 3% is used for credit card transactions.) is maybe too much to cover these software development costs?

A counter to this would be game store sites like Steam have in 30% fees but steam doesn't have a monopoly on the games store. Apple has a monopoly on the app store.

Apple has been taking a lot of actions within the last year against the developer community: 1) Retaliations in the anti-competitive lawsuits against Apple in US (surrounding fees) : * You must request an entitlement now from apple to link to an external payment provider in app. You must still give apple a 27% even if you use external payments. * If Apple feels a lack of compliance with the entitlement program they have the right to look through financial books and bill for if they think their cut was missed.

2) Retaliations in the anti-competitive lawsuits against Apple in EU (surrounding fees) : * PWAs. PWAs were starting to become a form of protest for developer to get around Apple's closed source system. PWAs don't utilize Apple's SDKs. Sure Apple may have some points surrounding the technical inefficiencies surrounding PWAs but it is suspicious that these rules have taken place during these lawsuits.

3) Beeper * Everything going on with Beeper enforces the point that Apples wants to have a stranglehold on their monopoly

Optional 4) The insane markup of the Vision Pro relative to competitors. Making it difficult for devs to test new products.

All of these exemplify Apple's use of their monopoly on the individuals who support their ecosystem (developers). There is strong consumer demand for Apple so their is a strong incentive to develop with Apple. Being an early-stage founder myself I am finding it very difficult to convince myself that developing on Apple for proving product market fit is the way to go.

These rules are hurting the smaller developer teams who can't afford to pay these fees and can't pay for a compliance guy in the beginning to look over Apple specific polices. PWAs being canceled is just another example of Apple over-using their power to hurt the little guy.