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Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by Georgelemental on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @11:49AM (#39372012)
Now if they could only do a good job developing the technology itself…
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by scotty79 on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @12:26PM (#39372476)
Why do what everyone can do if you can do the thing only you can do?

ASML

When there's a gold rush, make shovels.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by pb7 on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @12:32PM (#39372557)
That’s it? One noteworthy company for a population of 440M?
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by berkes on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @01:22PM (#39373224)
Obviously not. There are tons of large companies, many of which are often misread as American, because they are listed on the Nasdaq or another US exchange.

Many EU companies have far higher revenues than their US counterparts (Airbus, Volkswagen, Alstom), are boring but crucial (Heidelberg, DTE) or not easily recognised (Novo Nordisk, Unilever).

Even in tech, there's a lot of interesting ones: Booking.com, elastic search, takeaway (aka GrubHub), Adyen, for example are all Dutch. There's or was, Spotify, Skype, SoundCloud, Zalando, Mojang, Shazam and so on.

Just be a bit more curious and less preoccupied and you'll see there's plenty going on in Europe. And don't forget that companies can be great and big and multinationals even if they aren't present in the US.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by xvector on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @04:36PM (#39375813)
The EU's entire modern tech industry does not even measure up to that of one US company.

Dismissals of the EU's inability to compete in tech is why EU citizens have missed out on literally tens of trillions of dollars in economic growth post-2000s.

The EU's lack of ability to innovate is becoming a serious problem for the progress of our species as a whole.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by scotty79 on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @06:43PM (#39377180)
US valuations are simply insane. Oligarchs money looking for an investment vessel inflate share prices. In most cases it has nothing to do with actual value of the companies or their revenue.

In US empty company can be "worth" billions for a time.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by pb7 on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @08:39PM (#39378111)
That's what happens when you're a wealthy country with a booming economy and flush with companies that serve the world.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by scotty79 on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:02AM (#39379887)
Not really. That happens when you have concetration of capital in few hands that can do with it whatever they want but there's really not much to do with it.

US stock market is analogue of Chinese real estate market. It's full of overpriced crumbling units and overt scams waiting to be exposed.

In Europe this capital is dispersed and more often serves the purpose of building infrastructure, increasing prosperity and well being of societies as a whole and developing large number of smaller businesses priced realistically. It's less flashy, but healthier.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by overstay8930 on Friday February 16, 2024 @08:14AM (#39396527)
The European economy is not healthy at all, and is facing an upcoming demographic crisis with a lot of issues with high unemployment and low wages causing brain drain.

I mean FFS the damn Euro literally almost became worthless because of the Greek debt crisis. Did people forget how close Europe came to abandoning its own currency?

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by scotty79 on Saturday February 17, 2024 @12:34AM (#39406733)
Can you recommend some reading on the subject? I don't recall any ideas about abandoning Euro by anyone else but the Greeks, who probably just wanted to print more which would be devastating for them in anything but the short term.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by berkes on Thursday February 15, 2024 @04:09AM (#39380580)
No.

That's what happens when there's no social system for pensions. In the US everyone and his dog has to "invest" in the stock market for their older days. In Europe this is happening more and more too, but there's also still a reasonable pension system in most countries that serves this purpose for individuals.

There are simply far more investers putting money in already inflated assets in the US than in Europe.

Take Tesla vs Volkswagen (or Porsche if you want). VW sells magnitudes more cars worldwide than TSL, even just the electric ones. Their ROI is much higher. And both their innovation is just as flakey at times (compared to e.g. Volvo who remain strong leader in all automotive innovation).

Anyone who looks at the solid figures, sees that VW is simply the stronger and more boring company. Yet people bet on the future, in which TSL promises to overtake VW. And then inflates the already inflated bubble some more, praying for that promise to be delivered on.

Praying, however, is not a good way to innovate an economy.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by xvector on Thursday February 15, 2024 @02:03PM (#39386912)
You do realize that pensions invest in the market too? 401ks just give you more control over the investment.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by berkes on Thursday February 15, 2024 @03:35PM (#39388405)
Yes, I do.

But pension funds invest very different from Jane and Joe for their retirement.

To answer equally condescending: I presume you realize that?

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by pb7 on Thursday February 15, 2024 @04:13PM (#39388957)
Take the biggest pension fund in Europe, Norway Government Pension Fund Global with $1.5T AUM: https://www.nbim.no/en/the-fund/investments

Over 70% is invested in equities, the rest mostly in fixed income (bonds). Not a whole lot different than an average 401k invested in a target date fund. But the real zinger: over 33% of the total is invested in US equities alone, with a whopping 47% of all investments being in the US. Norway doesn't seem to share your opinion on US equities.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by scotty79 on Friday February 16, 2024 @05:30AM (#39395285)
All investment involves some gambling. Putting 1/3 into US stocks is not a bet on health and creativity of US conpanies. It's a bet on the assumption that the biggest casino on Earth will keep attracting the rich that don't have other places to go. Fairly safe bet I'd say.

Regardless, it only reinforces that the notion that US stock market doesn't reflect true worth of US companies because it's flooded with capital from pension funds. Not only US ones but from the whole world.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by pb7 on Friday February 16, 2024 @09:18AM (#39397330)
> Putting 1/3 into US stocks is not a bet on health and creativity of US conpanies.

This type of delusion is why Europe has been falling behind economically for decades.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by scotty79 on Saturday February 17, 2024 @12:32AM (#39406720)
I, in my delusion have near zero influence on European economy, so if it's in fact falling behind, which it probably isn't, there must be other reason.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by geraneum on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @09:30PM (#39378437)
> literally tens of trillions of dollars

> ability to innovate

Valuation and innovation could be related and could be not depending on the company, industry, fraud, etc.

> The EU's lack of ability to innovate

Modern American tech products are made of so many different parts, of which a significant portion is made (and designed) in EU, rest in US, Japan, Korea, China, etc.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by berkes on Thursday February 15, 2024 @03:57AM (#39380510)
Yeah. Airbus has proven to be unable to compete and innovate itself into an established market. /S
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by scotty79 on Thursday February 15, 2024 @12:59PM (#39385948)
What has Boeing proven then?
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by berkes on Thursday February 15, 2024 @03:42PM (#39388501)
My point was that Airbus has proven to be able to break into an established, near monopolized market through innovation.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by scotty79 on Thursday February 15, 2024 @04:09PM (#39388900)
Oh, sorry. I missed the intention behind the /S

I didn't know that about Airbus.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by alkonaut on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @03:13PM (#39374658)
There are tons of large european tech companies. But we forget that because most of them are 50 or 100 years old.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by corford on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @02:07PM (#39373787)
If we're talking chips, ARM is also quite noteworthy...

FinTech is pretty awesome in Europe too: Wise, Revolut, Klarna, Adyen are all unicorns/decacorns.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by IlikeMadison on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @12:20PM (#39372400)
they already do
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by pb7 on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @12:26PM (#39372483)
Do they? Examples?
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by amarant on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @01:06PM (#39373015)
Spotify, King, DICE and Mojang are some commercial software successes. All from Sweden.

If you don't think the entertainment industry counts for much, I might remind you Linux was originally made in Finland. (Linus Torvalds is half Swede half Finn iirc)

That's just from the top of my head.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by ganieldackle on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @01:23PM (#39373241)
Spotify was made up of 75% US employees since the moment it validated its value.

DICE is a failed studio. Battlefield 2042 was one of the worst AAA video game launches of all time (with Cyberpunk 2077 by Polish studio CD Projekt Red being another) after a rocky Battlefield V launch and there is no reason to believe they will come back from it.

King makes low quality micro-transaction-riddled games for addicts.

Mojang -- OK.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by matsemann on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @01:43PM (#39373497)
Facebook is just scams and intervenes with elections. Google is just privacy hell that sells your data for ads. Amazon is in the business of abusing its workers. Point being, it was asked for success. Not if people like the company or not.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by ganieldackle on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @02:23PM (#39373988)
What an intellectually dishonest take comparing Candy Crush to US big tech. You should be embarrassed.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by amarant on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @02:49PM (#39374317)
I mean, candy crush is the most downloaded mobile game ever, and it's income is measured in millions of dollars per DAY.

I don't much like it either, but it's popularity is difficult to deny.

By any objective measure, it's a successful company.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by matsemann on Thursday February 15, 2024 @04:46AM (#39380801)
I wonder what's done more good for the world.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by xvector on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @04:40PM (#39375880)
What a cynical interpretation. These companies have QoL for billions, directly and indirectly. You are just normalized to it now.

For some reason I don't see you blaming Cambridge Analytica - the actual company running the interference by exploiting APIs - for the interference itself.

Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by matsemann on Thursday February 15, 2024 @04:46AM (#39380799)
Did the point go above your head? Because my point was that the EU companies mentioned also have earned money and been used by billions of people, no matter if the other commenter likes them or not.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by pb7 on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @08:23PM (#39378009)
If we're going to be reducing to absurdity, Europe is a museum. No one is looking to it for the next big thing.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by klabb3 on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @02:23PM (#39373989)
If only California could do a good job starting as many companies as Delaware.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by ulchar on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @02:49PM (#39374319)
Is Delaware a good place for a startup? Or am I missing the joke.
Re:European Court of Human Rights bans weakening of secure e... by amirdadp on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @03:08PM (#39374571)
Many companies incorporate in Delaware for benefits such as loose tax laws.