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Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by k__ on Thursday February 08, 2024 @08:40AM (#39301777)
I tend to use media (games, chats, dating apps, social media, etc.) excessively (for 4-8h a day)

However, since I never miss them when I have better things to do, it never fits the definition of addiction.

On the other hand, I also don't drink, smoke, or consumer caffein without a purpose, so maybe I just don't tend to get addicted.

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by Aurornis on Thursday February 08, 2024 @09:27AM (#39302244)
> I tend to use media (games, chats, dating apps, social media, etc.) excessively (for 4-8h a day)

This statement alone could be enough to qualify your habit as an addiction, FYI. If you compulsively fill your free time with a behavior that you describe as “excessive”, then that’s a sign that this is not a healthy behavior.

Perhaps it’s more important to realize that something doesn’t need to fit the exact definition of “addiction” in a textbook for it to be an u healthy behavior.

> However, since I never miss them when I have better things to do, it never fits the definition of addiction.

This doesn’t actually disqualify you from addiction like you think.

For example, an alcoholic might drink excessively when they find themselves in a situation or location that triggers their excessive behavior (going to a bar, driving past a liquor store on their way home, attending a sports event that serves alcohol). Part of their treatment would include modifying their behavior to avoid those triggers. For you, the trigger could be as simple as having large amounts of unplanned free time.

> On the other hand, I also don't drink, smoke, or consumer caffein without a purpose, so maybe I just don't tend to get addicted.

I had a friend who was in the addiction treatment and recovery industry for a while. He said it was actually very common for people to end up in rehab because they believed themselves to be immune to addiction or to “not have an addictive personality”. This created an opening for a lot of denial and rationalization, which led to deeper and more protracted problems before they did something about it.

A common example is a functional alcoholic: They can go for years denying that their use of alcohol is a problem because they’re holding down a job and they may skip days of drinking under certain conditions (something better to do) without going into full on classic withdrawal. However, they still have a problem and still default to drinking excessively during bouts of idle time. Excessively is the key word in this situation, and it’s the key word in your own post.

To be honest, the fact that you described an undesirable habit as “excessive” with 8 hours of use per day and then two sentences later tried to rationalize yourself as someone who doesn’t get addicted would be a major red flag that this behavior is problematic. Addicts tend to go through phases of rationalizing away their problem before they accept it.

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by k__ on Thursday February 08, 2024 @09:37AM (#39302384)
All good points, thank you.

However, isn't psychological or physic strain also a part of addiction?

I don't feel bad while doing it and I don't feel bad while not doing it (just bored).

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by vonjuice on Thursday February 08, 2024 @02:55PM (#39306787)
A big part of addiction is that it's an escape from something else.

The way you describe it, it sounds like through the day, when you have something better to do you don't engage with devices.

But how about longer periods? Like a full week? That can be a test to see if it causes you stress.

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by blueflow on Thursday February 08, 2024 @08:54AM (#39301913)
Theory (open for discussion): With ADHD you don't get addicted, the excesses are mostly to fill the boredom between the better things.
Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by bradleyishungry on Thursday February 08, 2024 @09:16AM (#39302152)
Smoking is twice as common in people with ADHD. ADHD specifically affects impulse control which means you’re much more likely to get addicted because bad habits are harder to stop doing.
Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by 4ec0755f5522 on Thursday February 08, 2024 @10:53AM (#39303388)
Nicotine is a stimulant: ADHD'ers are self-medicating and probably before they even know they have ADHD. It's not (primarily) because of a lack of impulse control.
Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by bradleyishungry on Thursday February 08, 2024 @12:42PM (#39304984)
Nicotine does stimulate the prefrontal cortex like adderall so self-medicating can play a role, but a lot of people with ADHD don’t get addicted to their medication. From what i’ve experienced, its the behavior that’s hard to quit. Not saying you’re wrong, just that I think the higher number of smokers is more due to the fact that quitting is harder because of the action of smoking, not because it acts similar to medication in some ways.
Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by k__ on Thursday February 08, 2024 @09:42AM (#39302454)
I'm diagnosed with ADHD and never had the impulse to take drugs.

I even forget to take my meds sometimes.

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by alan-hn on Thursday February 08, 2024 @10:24AM (#39302967)
Addiction is uncontrolled and damaging repetition of the behavior after initiation not the initial initiation itself
Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by k__ on Thursday February 08, 2024 @09:44AM (#39302477)
At least it feels like that for me.

I tend to eat more unhealthy food when I'm bored or depressed, but the moment I have an interesting task, I forget to eat the whole day.

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Thursday February 08, 2024 @08:59AM (#39301970)
This is just plain wrong. People with ADHD are much more likely to develop addiction than people who don't. Most of the addicts I know, including myself, have it.
Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by mordae on Thursday February 08, 2024 @09:05AM (#39302028)
My experience is the opposite. I don't get addicted. Obsessed with a topic for a while? Sure! Compulsively repeating some behaviors, like checking HN? That's me! But once I get distracted by something interesting, it's like those never existed. They just lose their appeal.
Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by findyourexit on Thursday February 08, 2024 @09:09AM (#39302079)
ADHD is a pretty broad brush. While I’ve no doubt that some instances fuel a predisposition for addiction, I’ve seen exactly the opposite tendencies exhibited also.
Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Thursday February 08, 2024 @09:19AM (#39302179)
I'm not saying there aren't people with ADHD who don't get addicted, but the statistics are unambiguous. Just google ADHD and addiction and you'll find plenty of studies.
Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by k__ on Thursday February 08, 2024 @09:59AM (#39302663)
21% of men with ADHD and 13% of women with ADHD

VS

9% of men without ADHD and 5% of women without ADHD

Fair enough, more than double. However, not the majority of the people with ADHD, so it could still be a ADHD-relates boredom problem and less a typical addiction issue. (Which doesn't make the results less dangerous, but the mechanisms that cause it different)

Sources:

https://www.addictioncenter.com/addiction/adhd/

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/addiction-statistics

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by bilsbie on Thursday February 08, 2024 @09:17AM (#39302158)
You raise a great point. But that identifies a bigger problem. Why is it so hard to find better things to do?
Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by k__ on Thursday February 08, 2024 @10:12AM (#39302820)
No idea.

It seems to me that neurotypical people don't have that issue.

Then again, I don't think I'm close enough to any neurotypical person to judge that.

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by vonjuice on Thursday February 08, 2024 @02:58PM (#39306834)
A trait of an addiction is that it significantly alters the way you perceive rewards and pleasure. It's not that it's hard to find better things to do, or that the other things aren't better, it's just they're not that. It's like it lowers the brightness on the rest of life.

If you manage to stay away from it for a period of time you start to see that it was just a lie, a skewed perspective.

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by WarOnPrivacy on Thursday February 08, 2024 @09:12AM (#39302104)
> I tend to use media ... for 4-8h a day...I never miss them when I have better things to do

Would it be reasonable to restate this as - media is the ~best thing available to you, 4-8h/day?

And by 'Available' I mean like 'readily reachable' and not like 'available if you reorder your life'. No wrong answer; just me wondering.

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by k__ on Thursday February 08, 2024 @10:04AM (#39302719)
I'm a writer, musician, software engineer, etc.

I have all these vocations and avocations available at my fingertips, they just don't always feel interesting.

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by WarOnPrivacy on Thursday February 08, 2024 @09:24AM (#39302219)
> I tend to use media (games, chats, dating apps, social media, etc.) excessively (for 4-8h a day)

I would do (and have done) genealogy for that kind of time. I think I can best describe it as overlap between it and addiction behavior. I base it on:

..how people close to me feel about it

..how often it squeezes out other worthwhile and important uses of my time

..that I keep justifications at the ready and think about others who do the same

I have no declaration to make about it other than I need to be mindful.

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by k__ on Thursday February 08, 2024 @10:10AM (#39302804)
"..how people close to me feel about it"

People I care are usually one of the reasons, I forget about excessively using media. So, they don't suffer from it.

"..how often it squeezes out other worthwhile and important uses of my time"

Theoretically? More often than not!

Practically, as I have ADHD it's not easy to define worthwhile consistently.

"..that I keep justifications at the ready and think about others who do the same"

Usually, I don't think explicitly about it. I don't justify it, I just do it for a while (more or less excessively) and when I deem other task more worthwhile (for whatever reason), I forget about them completely.

Re:My experiment in phonelessness was a failure. It also cha... by Liquix on Thursday February 08, 2024 @11:24AM (#39303875)
> I don't justify it

spends five minutes composing thoughtfully formatted post justifying it