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Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by tehjoker on Thursday February 08, 2024 @02:34AM (#39299343)
FYI these shells have been redirected from Ukraine to Israel and are being used in Gaza in service of genocide, which the International Court of Justice has determined to be likely to be occurring (but we can watch the livestream and see for ourselves).

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/israel-155...

Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by anovick on Thursday February 08, 2024 @04:38AM (#39300061)
> these shells have been redirected to Israel and are being used in Gaza

The front in Gaza is not Israel's only wartime front, not in the current conflict and not during past conflicts: Currently, Israel needs this ammunition to defend itself from Hezbollah forces in Southern Lebanon that have engaged in heavy indiscriminate rocket launching against Israeli civilian populations in the Northern Israel. At least 65,000 Israeli civilians have been forced to evacuate from their homes into temporary dorms until this Hezbollah threat is removed. Hezbollah, an Iran-backed terrorist org with ties to Lebanon parliament, must disengage their troops, as they are breaking the UN Resolution 1701 of demilitarization of the Southern Lebanon area.

Rocket launching from South Lebanon has started concurrently with Hamas attacks against Israel that started on October 7th in the Southern Israel.

> these shells have been redirected to Israel and are being used in Gaza

IDF usually doesn't use this ammunition against target threats in the Gaza strip. The most common explosives used are the Israeli air-force's targeted airstrikes, which are very precise and are performed to limit casualties of non-engaged civilians in the conflict.

> these shells have been redirected to Israel and are being used in Gaza in service of genocide, which the International Court of Justice has determined to be likely to be occurring

There is no genocide taking place in Gaza. There is war, yes, and civilians die too, yes, some even plausibly innocent, but the attacks are not with intent to target civilians. IDF commanders don't issue commands that break humanitarian limits and IDF soldiers adhere to their commanders strictly (outlier cases are dealt with promptly by military court).

FYI the ICJ's court of justice has NOT determined that a genocide is likely to be occurring, in fact it only issued a provisional statement that humanitarian care for the population of the Gaza Strip should continue, which Israel has already been doing for many months now, and will continue to provide, with enabling the entry of 100-200 or more trucks full of food every day, gasoline, and other humanitarian products etc.

Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by hef19898 on Thursday February 08, 2024 @05:28AM (#39300371)
What happens in Gaza is:

- targeted destruction of civil infrastructure (check rules of warfare regarding that)

- intentional destruction of a city

- a specified goal of displacing Palestinians living in Gaza

- blocking escape routes forbthose people

And all that after:

- turning Gaza into an open air prison

- controlling all utilities for Gaza

- blocking Gaza's access to the Medditeraneab

- blocking and controlling all border crossing into and out of Gaza

Maybe not yet Genozid yet, but clearly Apatheid and on-going ethnic cleansing. Stop defending that.

Just some numbers:

Displaced people, 1.8 million in Gaza, 3-5 million in Ukraine

Civilian casualties, 10,000 in Ukraine between Feb '22 and Nov '23 and 28,000 in Gaza as of Feb '24.

Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by tehjoker on Thursday February 08, 2024 @12:16PM (#39304614)
The attacks from Lebanon are in defense of Gaza and are part of Lebanon's legal obligation to prevent genocide. Aiding Israeli forces that are conducting illegal acts is complicity.
Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by khokhol on Thursday February 08, 2024 @01:26PM (#39305563)
The attacks from Lebanon are in defense of Gaza

Sorry, but this is simply naive. Hezbollah and Iran are doing what they're doing out of long-standing ulterior geopolitical motives. Not because they could give a flying toss about the Palestinians.

Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by tehjoker on Thursday February 08, 2024 @02:01PM (#39306045)
I wonder if those geopolitical motives has something to do with Israeli expansionism and settler-colonialism, which founded the Israeli state with the Nakba, the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, in 1948? Surrounding states have been highly sympathetic to the Palestinian plight. Israel invaded Lebanon multiple times.
Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by khokhol on Thursday February 08, 2024 @02:16PM (#39306227)
Which founded the Israeli state with the Nakba,

Look, we all know the history. Please don't be so arrogant.

The main point is, if you were to break down the reasons why the theocratic regime in Iran really opposes Israel at every turn - as opposed to what the narratives that they're happy to let you believe, such as the above, say about these motives - you probably wouldn't be blithely repeating those narratives.

Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by khokhol on Thursday February 08, 2024 @03:44PM (#39307448)
In fact it only issued a provisional statement that humanitarian care for the population of the Gaza Strip should continue,

This is very clearly not what the ruling says. And it is intellectually evasive to characterize as such, given that information about the ruling is widely and immediately available.

And I don't mean "evasive" in terms of spin, polish or oversimplifying. But rather, of an overt attempt to obfuscate the nature of the ruling.

There's no way that you, yourself, can plausibly believe the above statement you just made.

Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by Throw73747 on Thursday February 08, 2024 @02:38AM (#39299362)
And shelling Donetsk City is somehow different?
Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by tehjoker on Thursday February 08, 2024 @02:41AM (#39299377)
I am also against the Ukraine war and believe a peaceful settlement is possible. NATO (the US) is using Ukraine to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian, though having to fight two wars at once is causing them to rethink their position.

ICJ did rule against Russia, and it makes sense since they invaded, but the roots of the conflict go back to attacks on Donetsk like you say since 2014 and various aggressive moves by NATO since 1991 in violation of the gentleman's agreement.

Basically, the US should not be supplying arms to these conflicts.

Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by Zetobal on Thursday February 08, 2024 @03:45AM (#39299741)
gentleman's agreement... what a weird way to say there was no agreement.
Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by clarionbell on Thursday February 08, 2024 @04:16AM (#39299940)
Don't you know. Russians never mastered the art of written treaties. The Soviets were confused and thought that pinky swear (after all of the deception of cold war) is guarantee of future power sharing :D
Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by tehjoker on Thursday February 08, 2024 @12:14PM (#39304589)
It's not a big deal to admit that Gorbachev was a weak leader that gave away too much and aided the fall of the USSR.
Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by justsomehnguy on Thursday February 08, 2024 @08:27PM (#39310283)
> :D

It's always refreshing to see what the West never does what it says, never did.

Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by roca on Thursday February 08, 2024 @04:39AM (#39300068)
> NATO (the US) is using Ukraine to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian

So you believe that most Ukrainians actually want to surrender to Russia?

Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by pastacacioepepe on Thursday February 08, 2024 @05:08AM (#39300252)
Maybe not 1/2 years ago, but look at the hundreds of videos of Ukrainian citizens being forcedly taken from the streets and thrown into the frontlines only to die shortly after. There were many voluntaries when the war started, now UA forced recruitment attempts are met with civilians filming and trying to stop them.
Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by Paradigma11 on Thursday February 08, 2024 @05:50AM (#39300505)
Here is Gorbachev about the gentleman's agreement: https://twitter.com/i/status/1749887239226617873
Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by baud147258 on Thursday February 08, 2024 @07:49AM (#39301331)
> various aggressive moves by NATO since 1991 in violation of the gentleman's agreement.

gentleman's agreement, which was never acknowledge by the US and was with the previous regime, unlike the written agreement _Russia_ signed recognizing Ukraine's independence and sovereignty, with their 1994 borders. And NATO wouldn't have expanded East if the countries in Eastern Europe didn't feel a need to join a defensive alliance.

Re:As Much as You Ever Wanted to Know About 155M Artillery S... by khokhol on Thursday February 08, 2024 @01:15PM (#39305444)
The roots of the conflict go back to attacks on Donetsk and moves by NATO since 1991

All I can tell you is -- just because intellectual-sounding people like Chomsky, Mearsheimer et al; not to mention Putin himself -- whom you are apparently cribbing from, knowingly or otherwise -- say things like this, doesn't make it so. If you actually walk back and look at the event chronology you'll find there's no substantial basis for either of these narratives.

NATO (the US) is using Ukraine to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian,

The implication you are making here is that the Ukrainians at large have no real agency in the situation, and basically have no idea why they're actually fighting.