Casinos in Vegas use too many decks and reshuffle frequently enough that there is no edge gained over the house when card counting.

This is not true. Besides continuous shuffler machines, most casinos have 6 or 8 deck games that have plenty of 'penetration' (card counter term for depth into the deck that the cut card is placed) to offer an edge if you properly card count. There's also a big game to be played where rubes think they can card count and instead lose tons of money attempting to do so.

The problem with card counting generally is that the casino has infinite money and never runs out, thereby they can sustain large expected value swings... whereas you need an enormous bankroll to handle those swings, assuming they don't throw you out before that happens.

The book "Bringing Down the House" by Ben Mezrich explains in layman's terms how card counting works for blackjack.

There's plenty of doubledeck blackjack with good penetration in Vegas, especially in high limits rooms. The problem nowadays is that the casinos are also counting, and the patterns are simple and easy to track with the tech we all have. Changing your bet even a couple times based on the count can have the pit boss getting a call to remove you.

'legal' has no meaning here when it's against every single casino policy in the world.

Uh, yes, it does?

There’s a huge difference between: “if you do X, you will be asked to leave” and “if you do X, the police will arrest you”

Like, when I invite someone over to a dinner party, it is against my policy to insult my dog. If you do that I will kick you out (not actually, he’s a dumb klutz, you can insult him all you want), but that doesn’t make it illegal to insult my dog.

True but not relevant. Police and legality do not need to be involved with certain kinds of casino justice. Security may just offer to beat your ass if you won't cease and desist, avoiding the paperwork. Could be bluff but they know where cameras are and have cop friends..

You need to check a calendar and see the current year - the days of Casinos' roughing up card counters is long long long gone. Might be great for your screenplay or fan fiction but doesn't match reality.

Strange that you can be so confident about this with private security when even actual police are sometimes involved in cases of excessive force, corruption, coverups. Besides, whatever your personal knowledge/experience is it can't be vast enough to prove a negative here, and only one counter example is needed.

Regardless of the year I think you might want to reconsider your overly confident notions about fiction/reality or at least the condescending tone. I don't know what is institutionalized in what places, but have been threatened by casino security. Fuck around and find out I guess

> and only one counter example is needed.

From where I stand, you'd need to show it's systematic. One single instance is not enough for me. Because your claims are general, as if they applied to many casinos.

Caesars has a $9.3B market cap. They're not beating anybody up for "casino justice".

> Security may just offer to beat your ass if you won't cease and desist

To be clear, if they tell you to stop playing, and you don’t, then they absolutely can call the police for trespassing, which is a crime.

I don’t think most casinos have private security that will beat you any more, since they can tell you to stop playing and enforce that with police.

I'm kind of perplexed by the blanket assertions here as if private security everywhere will never offer either threatened or actual violence in either official or unofficial capacity.

Nevermind casinos, do people think every bouncer at every bar is merely for show? Since "management reserves the right", trespassing, threats and assault are not really a huge due-process kind of thing, and local establishments/insiders rank higher than outsiders. Within reason they know what is allowed and that isn't always going to be exactly and only whatever the law technically says.

Edit for even more context. For people that don't know already, not every casino or bar is owned by some megacorp who gives a shit about PR, has tons of cameras, has some HR department to educate staff on doctrine, etc. Many casinos are literally in sovereign territory of indigenous peoples also. Not that summary execution for offenders will be status quo there, but come on folks. The world is large and complicated, so simple stories about it are usually incomplete

> by the blanket assertions

I mean, I think you're making up blanket assertions where there are none. I haven't made a blanket assertion. I specified the difference between policy and legality.

I then said "I don’t think most casinos have private security that will beat you any more" That's not a blanket assertion. It specifically says "most casinos".

I have never asserted that it NEVER happens and can NEVER happen.

So, I think your confusion is a product of your own assumptions.

Fair, you're as careful to use qualified language as I think I have been. Guess I wasn't really replying to you but just frustrated by the thread in general.

As I understand, in Las Vegas, as long as you do not use a device to aid with card counting (mind/mental only), it is legal. Is that still true?

Sure, it's "legal"—but so is them banning you from playing blackjack or tresspassing you from their property.

Great point. Thank you to clarify. Casinos in Las Vegas are private. They have the right to ask anyone to leave for any reason.

In New Jersey they can’t kick you out for card counting.

Winning is against casino policy too but that doesnt stop people trying.

> effective ... way to beat the house

Statistically, it is not effective. Your card counting needs to be (basically) perfect, and you need very deep pockets to handle extended drawdowns.