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Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by roenxi on Sunday February 04, 2024 @05:26AM (#39249063)
The part I find most interesting is that the current political elite of ... I don't quite know what to call it. The US clique? Places that speak English + Germany + Japan and maybe a chunk of the EU. Global North perhaps.

Anyway, whoever they are seem to have limited interest in energy security. Much like someone who has no interest in food security, that is going to change at some point. The anti-nuclear lobby has done terrible things and should be ashamed of the position they've put us in. We'd be so much better positioned if they had been rational instead of panicked.

It is trivial to make people better off when the energy supply is growing. It is much harder (or impossible) to improve lifestyles at an industrial scale when it is shrinking.

Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by rightbyte on Sunday February 04, 2024 @06:02AM (#39249271)
> It is much harder (or impossible) to improve lifestyles at an industrial scale when it is shrinking.

The abundant consumerism wrecks peoples lifestyles. I don't see the need to jump through hoops to support planned obsolescence consuming of widgets and eating so much food obesity becomes the major health concern.

The growth worship need to stop.

Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by cpursley on Sunday February 04, 2024 @06:39AM (#39249480)
> The growth worship need to stop.

It’s easy to write that from the comfort of a western nation with reliable electricity where bellies are full and most household chores are done by machine.

The rest of the world very much would like that same standard of living (food, physical comfort and safety), and for that - they need affordable energy.

Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by rightbyte on Sunday February 04, 2024 @07:21AM (#39249678)
Sure. I should have been more specific.

However, much of the abundance in western nations, need the cheap production of those countries. Trading wheat for Rolex clocks might be a bad deal for them (hyperbolic point, I know).

E.g. countries like Nigeria have a simultaneous obesity and malnutrition (low bmi) problem.

I am not claiming I know what needs to be done.

Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by kiba on Sunday February 04, 2024 @09:01AM (#39250251)
Obesity is an issue of regulatory process in the human body being in disarray. The overfeeding is a consequence of that issue.
Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by Geisterde on Sunday February 04, 2024 @06:36AM (#39249472)
Define growth. I dont think you know what that term means, I dont blame you because its misused nearly 100% of the time in media, but its important to be clear.
Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by rightbyte on Sunday February 04, 2024 @06:48AM (#39249516)
I mean it in the really loose "number gets bigger" sense, for some unmentioned metric.
Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by Geisterde on Sunday February 04, 2024 @02:01PM (#39253231)
Thank you, now if I may. Lets rewind to 2008/2009, the banks were gambling on risky mortgages, those mortgages were adjustable rate and sold at a low interest rate. When interest rates rose it caused widespread defaults, and the fear was that the banks would also default on their loans too. So we dropped several hundred billion dollars on it and "saved" the banking sector. In reflection, people will say the economy "grew", but it is indistinguishable from an upward transfer of wealth, and it led to a "k-shaped recovery", where the upper echelons gained and the lower echelons lost.

More concerning is the actual lack of explicit definition, appologies for the trick question. There isnt a great metric to measure growth, some will point to GDP, or unemployment, but the former can be manipulated by increasing government spending (more on that later), and the latter doesnt account for the qualitative aspects like whether someone started as a business owner and now work at starbucks.

You could point at the stock market, but again this isnt a great measure. Wealthy people have a higher fraction of their wealth in the stock market, and benefit disproportionately to the less wealthy. Moreover, the stockmarket goes up for reasons that dont have anything to do with production. When interest rates go down the stock market goes up (generally), at first this might make sense, businesses can better afford the resources they need; except, at any given price point there are only so many resources available, all you have done is increased demand and driven up prices. The same occurs with government stimulus, you are giving people more receipts for wealth, you havent created the actual wealth though. ---------- Lastly, and most importantly, there is the mechanics of our monetary system. It would be nice if there was a thing we called money, and that money had some kind of value based on available goods and services. This is not accurate though, we have "legal tender" or "currency", which can be used to settle debts.

The distinction is important, because it necessarily implies that debt cant be paid back, and here is the crux. Every dollar in the economy was created through debt, like when you took out a home loan, or when the government takes on debt; that debt has an interest rate, and new dollars cant be created except through more debt. If debts were to all be repaid, there would be zero dollars left in the economy, and there would still be debt left to pay.

The only, and I mean only, way to prevent this from causing a cascading default, is to continuously add more dollars (and debt!) into the system, prolonging the pains of inflation and delaying the date of reckoning for an ever shorter period of time.

So how do you respond to your money being devalued constantly? The answer for many is, "follow the money" and blow it on a new car. Very few investments will ever beat the actual rate of inflation, so a dollar saved is a dollar wasted.

Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by asystole on Sunday February 04, 2024 @06:13AM (#39249343)
> You make them sound like some terrorist sect.

Well, is that entirely unreasonable?

Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by rightbyte on Sunday February 04, 2024 @06:21AM (#39249392)
I did put words in his mouth, so I need to drop that.
Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by kiba on Sunday February 04, 2024 @08:57AM (#39250223)
Imagine that you live in a civilization where for every billion watt we might get from the sun we only consume one watt. That's the kind of world we live in today.

In actuality, the biggest issue is the amount of pollution we emitted, not growth per se.

Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by adrianN on Sunday February 04, 2024 @06:26AM (#39249416)
Fortunately nuclear is not the only way to increase energy supply.
Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by fsflover on Sunday February 04, 2024 @07:09AM (#39249610)
But it is one of important ways to diversify it.
Re:Nuclear power saved Armenia by patall on Sunday February 04, 2024 @06:20AM (#39249388)
I know it is whataboutism but I think you can say pretty much the same thing about every topic:

- underfunding of journalism

- climate change

- chemicals like PFAs

- demographics

- social media

...