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Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by monero-xmr on Friday January 19, 2024 @11:23PM (#39064659)
This is a crank article. SSRIs were very effective for me, and it was 100% not placebo.

Not sure how tens of millions of people are all operating under a collective placebo delusion, yet this author totally figured it out.

Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by slibhb on Friday January 19, 2024 @11:45PM (#39064767)
It's not a crank article. It exaggerates but does include specific criticism of a certain influential study.

I'm fairly skeptical of SSRIs. Most psychiatrists still parrot the "your brain needs more serotonin" line which is not backed by substantial evidence. I think SSRIs probably "work" as active placebos (with side effects) but are vastly overprescribed.

Also, it's very hard to know if an antidepressant worked for you because we can't test the counterfactual.

Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by monero-xmr on Friday January 19, 2024 @11:49PM (#39064794)
SSRIs are not placebo. They are very powerful drugs. Increasing the dosage has more extreme effects. To call it placebo is a misunderstanding of statistics.

If a drug doesn’t work for 80% of people but works for 20% very well, it might be indistinguishable statistically from placebo. That doesn’t mean it isn’t working.

Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by adenta on Friday January 19, 2024 @11:40PM (#39064743)
I had to try five different SSRI/SNRI’s before I found one that worked. I bet I could determine my SNRI vs a placebo in a double blind trial.
Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by Perenti on Friday January 19, 2024 @11:50PM (#39064800)
Similarly, I'd been on 6 different Tricyclics, SSRI and SNRI until I met my current meds. These ones (venlafaxine) work for me.
Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by taspeotis on Friday January 19, 2024 @11:33PM (#39064706)
I have also had good results with SSRIs.
Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by fuzzybear3965 on Friday January 19, 2024 @11:40PM (#39064744)
Maybe you'd have had better luck with placebos. No side effects?
Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by shalmanese on Saturday January 20, 2024 @01:01AM (#39065126)
Placebos can sometimes have more harmful side effects than actual drugs: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/science-blog/harmful-placebos
Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by hackerlight on Friday January 19, 2024 @11:44PM (#39064760)
> SSRIs were very effective for me, and it was 100% not placebo.

You may have had extreme depression. That's the cohort that anti-depressents actually work for. But they are next to a scam for people with mild depression (or I should say, they do the same thing as placebo according to RCTs), which is where the majority of prescriptions go to. See Irving Kirsch's research on this question.

I'd add that, even if you didn't have extreme depression, I don't doubt that you experienced something that wasn't placebo, because you did take a substance that causes side effects. It is impossible to blind you to the consequences of a side-effect causing drug.

Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by Perenti on Friday January 19, 2024 @11:52PM (#39064813)
Is "extreme depression" a clinical term? I've heard of Major Depression, Chronic Depression, Clinical Depression.
Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by monero-xmr on Friday January 19, 2024 @11:58PM (#39064838)
I had depression, generalized anxiety, OCD, panic attacks, and myriad issues related to that. I tried years of meditation, diet changes, vitamins and supplements, and exercise routines.

When I finally agreed to try SSRIs after years of resistance, I was essentially cured within 3 weeks after 5 years of debilitating issues.

Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by hackerlight on Saturday January 20, 2024 @12:49AM (#39065072)
> debilitating issues.

Could it be that you had severe depression, if the issues were debilitating? Irving Kirsch's studies have shown that anti-depressents are indeed effective for such cases. Or perhaps it just happened to work for you. RCTs only look at mean effects so they dilute exceptions and outliers.

Anyways, this is a more pro-anti-depressants/pro-psychiatry analysis of Irving Kirsch's research:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/ssris-much-more-than-y...

Re:The Final Nail in Psychiatry's Antidepressant Coffin by monero-xmr on Saturday January 20, 2024 @01:06AM (#39065145)
The primary issue was anxiety and OCD. The drug worked, I know it’s hard for you to believe if you didn’t experience it yourself. But it is a night and day difference.