I enjoy my commute as well but no amount of justifiying it changes the fact I’d be much better off with either a shorter commute or none whatsoever by going fully remote. I’d even be okay with hybrid. Wasted time on commute ads up to a minilifetime that could be used in different ways

And then there are the people who want to visit family far away from their home and still be able to work. That’s enabled by remote work.

True, my WFH option has allowed me to spend weeks at a time with my parents and siblings, who live far from me, at very important times in their lives.

Previously I’d see them during holidays only, and now I see them once a month and actually am able to spend quality time with them.

And while I respect the idea and value of non-remote, I don’t think any amount of “in-person whiteboarding sessions and relationship building” would be worth sacrificing for the flexibility of spending quality time with my family and seeing them more often.

It depends. In my case the commute is a (seriously) bumpy bus ride that takes 2-3 times more than by car (the bus has stops and it takes a longer route and I have to change the bus at least once, that adds extra latency). Fortunately the bus is relatively empty in my stop so I don't have to stand.

This means that I couldn't read anything. Shaking of the bus also gives me time to time a mild headache. Now if the ride was smoother (like a train or a tram) and I still could sit and read then indeed I would agree with you.

Fortunately I don't have to commute very often so I can tolerate this to a degree but if I had to commute every day then it would add considerable extra strain into my life.

Normally the day should be divided into 3 equal parts: 1 sleep time, 2 work time, 3 personal time.

Commute time effectively steals from either personal time or from sleep time and this comes on top of getting ready for work that is also a major waste of time in the mornings.

When for many years I had a long commute into London I appreciated I was lucky that it was on a train line without any train changes required. So that was a calm productive "me time" on the train for over an hour each way. Usually do some work on my laptop, some hacking on hobby apps, some film watching etc. Also a lot of snoozing.

But I also self-selected roles closer to the end station in London so the commute at the other end was short-ish.

Whenever I had to do any other commute: by car, bus, multiple changes, etc it was always a grind and shortlived.

However, I was able to stop even the not-so-bad commute long before COVID as I wanted to be at home when the kids came back from school as they are only young once and briefly so. Though I miss the "me-time".

Shines where it can, doesn't work in most of the US.

Public transit use:

https://vividmaps.com/public-transportation-in-the-united-st...

https://vividmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/public-tran...

Population density:

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/28/americans-moving-map-2022-f...

https://www.axios.com/2023/01/31/cities-pandemic-moving-tren...

https://www.axios.com/2023/09/14/where-america-stands

Thankfully the US is a major outlier in this aspect globally.

You need to get out of your bubble. After having traveled to more than 60 countries on all the continents (except Antarctica), I can assure you that a majority of humans do not have good reliable public transport. It is a luxury that only some parts of the world have.

Just as an example, right now I am in an Indian city where there is some minimal public transport but a majority of people need their own vehicle to commute for most of their journeys. And it is not an unusual scenario for India, which contains more population than Europe and North America combined.

You're being silly. The majority of the world also doesn't have access to airplanes, but that doesn't mean they don't work. OP is certainly not in the ridiculous bubble you're describing.

OP's words: "Thankfully the US is a major outlier in this aspect globally."

I don't think OP understands the meaning of the word globally

We need to keep in mind the framing of this- it’s a discussion about commuting vs wfh. In the universe of locations where that’s a serious conversation the US is an outlier in terms of poor public transit.

Don't you think Indians too have serious discussions about commuting vs wfh? Now I am asking this seriously - what bubble are you living in if you think that topic doesn't pertain to people in developing countries?

I do not think that it is valid to compare a developing country that can't provide even proper sanitation to US.

We can compare US to Japan, to Europe, perhaps to some parts of China but certainly not to India - it would be too much apples to cucumbers comparison.

I agree. Then let's say "developed world". Saying US is a global outlier is silly when much of the globe is underdeveloped.

Perhaps, but we can say that there are certain reasons why the public transportation can be not very good in the developing world.

Imagine that we but every country and their development index and their public transportation development index on a XY graph? Would US still stand out?

Let's assume that it does. Then we can say that US is a global outlier.

I now see where you are coming from and based on your definition, it makes sense that US is a global outlier. However, the dimension of developed status of a country was not at all apparent in the original context which was only about WFH, commute and public transport.

Why would you think comparing the developing world with the USA makes in any way sense - do you actually think the US is at the developmental level of India?

When comparing similarly wealthy countries the US is absolutely an outlier in this.

> Why would you think comparing the developing world with the USA makes in any way sense

Because you said - "Thankfully the US is a major outlier in this aspect globally." "Globally" implies the entire world. Now why are you moving the goalposts? If you wanted to confine the discussion to the developed world, just call out US being an outlier in the developed world.

I think it was obvious what they meant given context.

I don't think it is that obvious. HN is a global platform after all.

It stands to reason that someone who has travelled to over 60 countries would have the ability to understand what someone is trying to say without being this needlessly pedantic.

Probably we have different reasoning processes then. But this discussion is about WFH vs remote and the impact of not having to commute. It is a very pertinent topic to a lot of workers in developing countries because they too have to endure shitty commutes every day.

It shines when comparing to commute by private transport, but not so much when comparing it to no commute at all. If you didn't have a commute to the office, you would still have an hour to do your reading, but you could do it in bed, or in a coffee shop, or in your kitchen, or on a walk...

I find that a reason to leave the house and be a part of the hustle and bustle is fundamentally good for my energy and mental health. I bet I wouldn't read in the morning as much if I didn't have that commute.

This is very subjective, as well as personal and irrational, but I find it to be true. I benefit from having a reason to go out into the world in the morning. WFH and the freedom to go to the coffeeshop or take a walk didn't match up.

I agree. I lose energy levels and general lust for life when I don't have a strong reason to leave the house.

I have a public transit commute, but at the end of the day it's 8 minutes of walking to the train, a transfer after 7 minutes, and then a 7 minute walk to the office from the train. Never enough unbroken time to get into a book :(. I've learned something new about public transit commuting--look for a commute with as long a single stint on the train as possible, while still trying to minimize total time.

Getting the extra reading time is nice, and if I didn't have a family I'd be all about that. But for me I get to spend mornings and evenings with my son, but if I had to commute half an hour then the morning would become just a rush to get him to daycare and the evening I might get to see him for a few minutes before he goes to bed. Sure the hour of reading would be nice but it would greatly diminish the quality time I'm able to spend with the little man.

> BTW this is where commute by public transport shines.

That depends on the public transport. When I lived in London (inside what is known as the zones 1-6), I had a walk, a wait for space on a train, then stand for 40 minutes on that completely packed train, then a change at a crowded station, then another wait for space on an underground train, then stand on a completely packed underground train. All of this while dealing with angry and rude other people trying to push on each step before you. I would get to work completely stressed and in a bad mood already. That is on a good day. On a bad day the trains would just be cancelled, or the underground halted, or something and it would take hours to just get to the office.

The only way I would consider going back to something like that is for a huge, huge amount of money.