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Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by radarsat1 on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @06:36AM (#39026393)
That's exactly how it works in the Netherlands, you just scan your items and go. There are no weight checks and you can scan items more than once and edit and remove things from the list. Apart from getting a poorly executed random check sometimes (which is far from effective for the purpose of avoiding theft imho) it actually works really well.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by nicolas_t on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @08:05AM (#39027097)
This is the same here in Hong Kong. There are no weight checks and self checkouts are rather efficient. That said I barely use them mostly due to ideological reasons. I don't like to live in a society that completely does away with human contact and until society is really built around a UBI, I think cutting away unskilled jobs is not necessarily positive for society.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by Tor3 on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @07:13AM (#39026666)
Same around here. Self-checkouts is hugely successful. I'm much slower going through the scan procedure than the person working at the conveyor belt is.. but that's more than offset by the fact that there are a large number of self-checkout counters and I don't have to queue up (for the most part). The only time I use the old non-self-checkout counter is when there are no customers and the person at the checkout looks bored. Then I go there.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by dahfizz on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @06:55AM (#39026529)
Enjoy your homogenous, high trust society. We are all jealous.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by david-gpu on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @07:41AM (#39026918)
> Enjoy your homogenous, high trust society

"Homogeneous" in what way?

Because in my experience the sort of "homogeneity" that leads to high trust is that of wealth/income, and it requires a generous social net.

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by Mountain_Skies on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @11:14AM (#39029676)
Most ways, as the research of Robert Putnam has documented well.

https://wcfia.harvard.edu/publications/downside-diversity

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by david-gpu on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @12:28PM (#39030711)
I see no mention of whether they adjusted for age and urban vs rural settings. Dense metropolitan cores, where most economic activity happens, tend to be both younger and highly diverse ethnically as the jobs there attract migrant flows. It is unsurprising that younger people in dense metropolitan "the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects". That's what retired people do.

And to be completely transparent about where I'm coming from: I'm the father of two mixed-race children and all this talk of "homogeneous societies" reeks to me of plain old racism that will hurt my kids. And I grew up in one of those European "homogeneous" countries that right-leaning racists love to talk about, too.

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by data_Is_Raciss on Thursday January 18, 2024 @08:48AM (#39041615)
You are the one who hurt your kids, and it’s on the rest of us now to stop you from also hurting society. Homogenous societies are a good thing and always have been.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by david-gpu on Thursday January 18, 2024 @01:05PM (#39045168)
> You are the one who hurt your kids, and it’s on the rest of us now to stop you from also hurting society. Homogenous societies are a good thing and always have been.

Thank you for supporting my thesis that praise for "homogeneous" societies is nothing but a dog whistle for plain old racism. I hope my children won't have to suffer people like you IRL.

Edit: It is hilarious that people like you praise places like the country where I was born and the country where my wife was born, but when we marry and have mixed-race children then suddenly you label our family as a menace to society.

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by Slamidan on Friday January 19, 2024 @02:47PM (#39060148)
Noticing negative outcomes is racism.

What happened in those dense metropolitan cores was bad, and so the good people fled, happened over and over again and people didn't learn.

There's a reason Hong Kong can have extreme population density and low crime, and detroit and any where else filled with Obama's sons is simply a place where even progressives who say things like you do try to flee.

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by j-krieger on Thursday January 18, 2024 @07:33AM (#39040941)
Turns out, like almost all things, homogeneity has positive aspects, too. Weirdly enough, this almost seems like forbidden knowledge depending on what political side you are on.

Also, as Denmark recently discovered, homogeneity is not simply dependent on a social safety net but exists within a symbiotic relationship with the latter.

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by BobaFloutist on Thursday January 18, 2024 @11:02AM (#39043384)
One of the biggest hurdles to getting a social safety net past public perception in the US is that people are easily swayed against it if they're told that people of other races will benefit from it. A certain portion of the population automatically sorts any public benefit into a weird racial zero-sum game, where any support given to <people of that race> is a dollar specifically taken away from <people of my race>.

It's a big part of why we've historically had such a hard time implementing any sort of reasonable social benefits, and why the much lauded Nordic countries started cutting down on theirs the second they got a significant (racially different) refugee population.

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by Slamidan on Friday January 19, 2024 @02:23PM (#39059830)
Its entirely rational, the net tax contribution of the other races in question other than asians is a net negative.

If you want open borders and are foolish enough to add "diversity" you cannot afford generous social safety systems.

People with genetic and cultural ties are more likely to sacrifice for one another, go figure, this has to be explained now to the progressive which is madenning. You cannot have nice things when you turn the social contract into a rental car.

Race matters, its why those nordic countries the left looks at longingly as example were made possible because they were homogenous, something they've been foolishly trying to undermine by following our example. Race matters, in homogenous countries a stranger is more related to their country men than the mixed race child. Why is Japan still functional, again, its homogenous, they are a cohesive people, and yes they do fat shame.

"Immigrants use more Welfare than Native populations: " https://twitter.com/AndrewQuackson/status/829594116929511424

"Asylum seekers and immigrants from Morocco and Horn of Africa costs the Dutch state €475,000-€625,000 per immigrant.

This can't be the best use of resources! Even if you are only interested in using the tax money to help non-Dutch people, you can save a life for ~€5,000." https://twitter.com/jonatanpallesen/status/17425869645769609...

"In the 18-24 age group, immigrants commit 90% of pimping crimes, 56% of **es, and 53% of robberies despite being only a small percentage of the population. The Italian government refuses to release data showing the percentage of these crimes committed specifically by Africans." https://archive.is/20230914033526/https://twitter.com/monito...

High grade human capital for import dried up after ww2, we are no longer importing Einstein, even worse in europe to be sure.

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by Freak_NL on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @07:00AM (#39026572)
Nah, don't worry. Theft at self checkouts is turning into a national hobby¹.

1: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2024/01/05/de-diefstalcijfers-stij...

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by Pepe1vo on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @07:22AM (#39026737)
Every time I read one of these articles the naivety and tone-deafness from supermarkets over these self-checkouts amazes me.

"In order to make more money we made customers self-report their purchases during a cost-of-living crisis while we were booking record high profits and now these customers are _under reporting_ their purchases, how dare they!!"

They should've seen this coming from miles away.

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by icoder on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @09:37AM (#39028268)
The way you phrase it (but maybe I get you wrong) suggests that the customers are somehow in their (moral if not lawful) right to do this because of previous policies from the supermarkets. They (supermarkets) may have been wrong, but so is stealing. They don't cancel each other out, nor do two wrongs become a right.

I'd say stealing is always a net negative effect for the whole.

But if you're saying that the entire context explains a lot of the behaviour, and could possibly be predicted, then yes I agree.

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by arp242 on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @11:32AM (#39029958)
> booking record high profits

According to the opening paragraph of that article that's doesn't seem to be the case. €80 million in profit (with €100 million theft) is not all that much.

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by owlninja on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @09:49AM (#39028461)
Sam's Club does this in the US and it is great.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by logicchains on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @10:00AM (#39028597)
Dubai also has self-checkout machines that don't require you to weigh anything, just scan and go, and it's an extremely heterogeneous, low-trust society. People are just very afraid of the police and being deported.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by Mountain_Skies on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @11:16AM (#39029706)
Seems to work similarly in Singapore. Low trust can work when there are harsh punishments for violations. But do we really want to live in that type of society?
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by polski-g on Thursday January 18, 2024 @10:16AM (#39042693)
Do I want to live in a society in which criminals suffer the consequences of their crime? Is this a serious question?
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by arp242 on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @11:33AM (#39029975)
Except it's neither homogenous nor high trust.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by alexanderchr on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @12:18PM (#39030564)
It's not exactly Japan-level high trust, but it is compared to most other countries in the world.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by arp242 on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @01:02PM (#39031171)
It really depends; in some areas it's exceedingly low-trust, almost paranoid. In some other areas it's probably not too bad.

Previous: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36933489

I used to live in Indonesia and things are much more "high trust" in many aspects. On the other hand Indonesia also has a lot of problems with corruption and that sort of thing. "High trust/low trust" is too simplistic.

I don't have 200 other countries to compare it to, but by and large, Western countries are much less high-trust in many areas than people assume. This often becomes painfully obvious once you stray outside of the "standard happy path".

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by netsharc on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @06:31PM (#39035163)
Whenever I see anyone use "homogeneous" in this context I always consider them a racist...

Meanwhile Netherlands elected an anti-immigration right-wing government in their last elections: https://time.com/6339173/dutch-election-results-geert-wilder...

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by sime2009 on Thursday January 18, 2024 @02:21AM (#39038952)
23% did, just to be clear.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by j-krieger on Thursday January 18, 2024 @07:35AM (#39040970)
Being conservative on immigration (and in general) is not necessarily the product of racism.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by hgomersall on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @06:57AM (#39026544)
This exists to some extent in the UK with the self scan widgets. Waitrose had it before self checkouts. It works really well.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by podgietaru on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @08:31AM (#39027381)
That’s not the full story though because there are random spot checks and they’re very very annoying when they happen.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by Mo3 on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @08:32AM (#39027399)
Annoying? A person comes and scans a few of the items on the counter, then leaves again. If that is already annoying to you, you must live a very stressed life
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by camgunz on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @10:23AM (#39028939)
It's super annoying. We'll often have groceries for the next few days, which includes a lot of baby food. So yeah, they're scanning like 40 items, and we have to repack the bag to not squash produce/bread and such.

Another related problem is that you physically can't leave the store unless you buy something and get a receipt to scan. You have to tailgate someone with a receipt, or hop the turnstyle, etc. Hope you're not in a wheelchair and change your mind / the store's out of what you were looking for!

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by gilbertbw on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @12:04PM (#39030399)
In Waitrose (UK) stores at least this is not the case. When you are spot checked the staff member spot checks that a few things in your trolley have been scanned. They tend to check some higher value goods like alcohol.

Also those stores, at least where I live, have no physical barrier to exit.

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by camgunz on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @03:57PM (#39033347)
Honestly why did you all have to Brexit. Would have loved to immigrate to the UK. Had to settle for NL.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by jacobp100 on Thursday January 18, 2024 @01:31PM (#39045624)
The scan as you go app is quite good until you get a rescan. The issue there is on the employees handsets. They never seem to be able to log in
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by SamCritch on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @09:49AM (#39028454)
Yeah, I think the UX here in the Netherlands is much simpler and easier than in other countries. When I go to the UK (e.g. Tesco Express) I have to select a bagging option, there's no "no bag" option at the beginning of the transaction even though I'm only buying a litre of milk, then when I put the carton down in the bagging area it triggers an alarm saying a store assistant is coming, but they never do because they're too busy serving all the other customers at the regular checkout. So I give up and try a different checkout, blocking the one I've just tried to use for 2 minutes.

I posted about this on Linkedin too and got a few comments about the complexity in the UK, USA, France and elsewhere. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/samcritchley_it-hasnt-deliver...

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by benoliver999 on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @10:15AM (#39028825)
99% of the time I use the 'weigh your own bag' option it asks someone to approve my bag. It's annoying.

Also, the 'bagging area' is on different sides in different shops. Also annoying.

Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by folmar on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @02:53PM (#39032571)
That 2 minutes is nice, in Poland a checkout station that was abandoned is blocked until an assistant notices it, so more like 30 minutes.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by Jochim on Friday January 19, 2024 @07:39AM (#39054739)
Weird, I've never seen a self checkout in the UK that doesn't provide the option to select no bag or key in 0 bags.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by camgunz on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @10:19AM (#39028889)
Yeah, but these checks are bonkers. Whenever we get one (maybe 2x a month) the store worker literally takes everything out of our bag and scans it again. It takes forever, and then we have to repack the bag. Don't get me wrong, I vastly prefer it to the scales in the US, but they're terrible and do nothing to prevent stealing (in fairness anecdata, but Jumbo reported they lost millions to stealing and I know multiple people who say they steal from Albert Heijn every time they go).
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by arp242 on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @11:27AM (#39029870)
There is a lot of theft though, and since supermarkets typically have fairly small margins this is also really cutting in to profit margins. I'm not sure how it compares to the weigh-systems though.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by zilti on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @12:29PM (#39030721)
Same in Switzerland. I got so annoyed the first time I used a self-checkout in Germany.
Re:The failure of self-checkout technology by s1artibartfast on Thursday January 18, 2024 @12:23PM (#39044551)
I believe the difference is living in a high trust society.