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Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by chrisknyfe on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @01:42PM (#39016998)
Those of you who are desperately trying to soften the blow - "they're talking about facebook, not OpenAI", "it's fair use, the license terms are irrelevant", "nothing has been taken from them" - you need to allow yourself to think the thought that maybe your AI startup's business model is only valuable because of theft. You need to let yourself entertain the idea that maybe you are only getting paid a cushy tech salary because you're aiding and abetting theft. You need to at least try to learn how to draw hands, the hard way, before hopping on Midjourney and saying "art is easy, why do these artists think they deserve to get paid for this?".
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by endo_bunker on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @01:47PM (#39017086)
nothing has been taken from them
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by chrisknyfe on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @01:54PM (#39017220)
The understanding you're missing is that artists benefit when they are credited for their work. Let's say you drew concept art for a videogame, and your name appears in the credits. You can now go to recruiters and hiring managers and say "I worked on a game that shipped" and get hired.

Let's say, during hard times when you don't have a job, fans of the game you worked on notice you on twitter and say "hey I loved your work, here's $5 for your patreon." Now you can pay your medical bills this month.

Their livelihood was taken from them. Midjourney is theft.

Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by Cheer2171 on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @01:53PM (#39017186)
Nothing except their ability to make a living.
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by rimeice on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @01:53PM (#39017179)
Value has been taken. Motivation to create has been taken if the second you upload something it gets sucked in to a model that any old person can create infinite iterations.
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by artninja1988 on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @01:55PM (#39017239)
>only valuable because of theft

It's not theft though

Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by gedy on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:01PM (#39017354)
Honestly digital media in general has greatly cheapened the value of images, music, illustration, etc. and this has been been a long time coming.

It was clear to me over 20 years ago when I realized that I wouldn't be able to earn enough in the arts, and ironically due to creative people sharing so much good content for free.

While I feel for people who didn’t realize this, but it’s no surprise if you try to earn your living by adding digital content to the global network of computer systems that something like the current AI trend was bound to happen.

If you love art - paint a painting, make a sculpture, perform in a play, perform live music, dance, etc. Digital is a dead-end goal in and of itself.

Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by xyproto on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:22PM (#39017715)
All human endeavors are dead ends, in the end.
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by gumballindie on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:06PM (#39017441)
Spot on. Most ai model value is in the stolen content. These criminals need punishment.
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by jMyles on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @01:52PM (#39017164)
You are using the word "theft" in a way which does not describe conduct that is actually theft.

Not all of us participate in the form of thought control that has been euphemistically pushed as "intellectual property."

Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by chrisknyfe on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:00PM (#39017342)
Hey, sorry, I read your profile briefly before replying... do you play bluegrass as your main gig or as a side hustle? Your new album is a bop.

Anyway, I don't think there's much I can say to change your mind - talk to other artists, especially those who are artists as their main hustle.

Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by jMyles on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @03:05PM (#39018348)
> do you play bluegrass as your main gig or as a side hustle?

Main gig, although of course the sands are shifting rapidly with regard to what that means, for precisely the reasons this conversation is so stimulating.

> Your new album is a bop.

Jeez man that's a nice thing to say. I'm really proud of it. We worked really hard on it. It has been fascinating to see and hear the responses; the story that I tell is one of "open source" and "traditional" having roughly the same meanings as applied to the intellectual property frameworks surrounding them.

I'm curious to hear what you might think of the album played in this order; I think it gives a darker and more contemplative perspective:

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2ucmjLc88iZdfKi9zlU5HP

> talk to other artists, especially those who are artists as their main hustle.

As you can see from the ensemble on my record, I've become friendly with a good chunk of the mainstream bluegrass world (which is a fairly tight-knit community). I think that a lot of artists are just very frustrated with the system as it is, where they are pitted against their own fans (or whomever wants to simply download and listen to their music) with the industry acting decidedly as a middle-man.

I am reasonably (but not totally) confident that musicians, and particularly purveyors of what have come to be called "the traditionals", will be among the main forces seeking to dismantle the IP system in the next couple of decades.

Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by Cheer2171 on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @01:55PM (#39017241)
I'm just curious if you believe that physical property or real estate is similarly a form of "thought control" that does not actually exist. "Property is theft" is a common saying in some intellectual-political circles, especially about land.
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by ronsor on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @04:06PM (#39019133)
Your question is disingenuous IMO. Physical property is about physical things, not thoughts. "Intellectual property" is literally about thoughts and work based on them - it's in the name.
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by jMyles on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @03:06PM (#39018365)
I don't know... I seem to go back-and-forth on the larger property question throughout my life.

But I certainly think that the casting the act of copying bytes from one medium to another as "theft" is propagandistic and dishonest.

Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by WesternMAGeek on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @01:56PM (#39017243)
And those who are getting paid those great tech salaries, should be willing to send 100% of their paychecks to artists while they code for free.

Because . . . they're not creating value with their code. It took them years to learn how to code well. All that effort should be contributed to the world for free.

Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by rideontime on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:13PM (#39017548)
Good point! The software engineers whose work was used to train Copilot, etc. should also be getting paid.
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by boolemancer on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:25PM (#39017761)
> It took them years to learn how to code well. All that effort should be contributed to the world for free.

I mean, there is a plethora of open source work that is actually contributed to the world for free, right?