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Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by Teever on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:05PM (#38922162)
I wonder if Apple will ever make a waterproof laptop or tablet.

It seems like they could easily make the macbook air waterproof at this point, if they were so inclined.

What do people who want use their macs out in the field do?

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by gnicholas on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @12:34AM (#38922743)
Making the ports waterproof would be pretty easy, since they can do that on iPhones. But what about the ventilation areas? That's much trickier, I'd think. Making a waterproof iPad should be trivial since it has the same ports as an iPhone.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by lloeki on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @01:22AM (#38923041)
> Making the ports waterproof would be pretty easy, since they can do that on iPhones

iPhones are not waterproof, they're IP68 water resistant. Apple even describes the port as being a liquid egress (and thus ingress) point in their public "oops I dunked my phone in water" support documentation.

    Dry your iPhone:
    
    1. Tap your iPhone gently against your hand with the connector facing down to remove excess liquid. Leave your iPhone in a dry area with some airflow
https://support.apple.com/en-us/102643
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by arrrg on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @04:43AM (#38924156)
I don’t think that means what you think it means.

Taking care to remove liquid from the port just as well makes sense simply because you do not want to have water in there when you plug the phone in and water in ports just doesn’t dry as easily as water on some surface.

In practice iPhones are (like nearly all modern phones) extremely water resistent and very unlikely to be water damaged by exposure to water or even immersion in water.

Phones are quite durable. Exposure to water is always a risk, obviously (so is any handling of an untethered phone in the presence of hard surfaces) but I would argue it‘s one you can reasonably take.

For my personal risk tolerance I sometimes rinse my phone in running water (taking care not to directly point the running faucet at any of the openings of the phone), I generally don’t worry about spills (so the phone might be on the kitchen counter where spills are likely) and I also took it out into the sea to take some photos (but did not submerge it).

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by macrolime on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @01:17AM (#38923014)
Watercooling or passive cooling with external heat sinks.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by gnicholas on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @02:25AM (#38923378)
Has Apple ever made a water-cooled computer? I agree this could be done with heat sinks, but was just pointing out that the current MBA design isn't on the cusp of waterproof.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by paleface on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @04:52AM (#38924215)
> Has Apple ever made a water-cooled computer?

The latter period of the G5, were water cooled, IIRC. They suffered from problems due to corrosion, though.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by FredFS456 on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @01:07AM (#38922946)
MacBook Airs no longer have ventilation
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by gnicholas on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @01:22AM (#38923045)
When the lid is open, I can see what appear to be vents. There is no active cooling, but I believe there are still holes where air escapes.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by astrange on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @01:21AM (#38923036)
You're thinking of fans.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by stephen_g on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:42PM (#38922423)
Having used ruggedised laptops in the past - usually the keyboards are pretty horrible if they're fully waterproof. Depends between model to model, but the most fully-waterproof ones we had had a full membrane over the keyboard, making it super spongey and terrible to type on.

An iPad on the other hard would be pretty easy to make fully waterproof like the phones, since it only has a couple of buttons and one port.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by dgrin91 on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @12:04AM (#38922552)
Touchscreens are terrible for any sort of environment requiring ruggedized gear. A little bit of rain or dirt makes the touch screen get very confused and totally useless for actual touch.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by tonyarkles on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @01:15AM (#38922997)
Resistive touchscreens work ok in that kind of environment, can be used with gloves… but suck quite a bit otherwise. None of the fun multitouch stuff, just a single pressure point to click with
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by scarface_74 on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @01:42AM (#38923139)
Old Rant: way back in the day Garmin made a capacitive touch screen watch for runners. Why did they think this was a good idea seeing that your hands would be sweaty and wet if you were running

2023 rant: if I press the button on my watch and tell Siri to “start swim workout” when I’m in the water, my watch still expects me to press a button on the screen while I’m in the water.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by Shadowmist on Wednesday January 10, 2024 @06:30PM (#38945106)
Do that finger pinch thing
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by Gigachad on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:54PM (#38922498)
They could just make the keyboard an easily replaceable part and have it waterproofed off underneath the keyboard.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by hutzlibu on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @04:20AM (#38923983)
I have a somewhat rugged chromebook(Asus C201), which is not waterproof, but quite waterresistant and still with a decent keyboard. I used it while backpacking in rough areas and it got wet and sandy and got dropped in wet dirt - but never had an issue with typing. So I think it is possible to get a good balance of waterproof and ergonomic keyboard. But full waterproof would be probably indeed hard.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by httpz on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:22PM (#38922277)
It doesn't even have to be waterproof to prevent 99% water damage cases. It just needs to be water resistant against liquid pours from the top, like how a car can withstand rain.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by millzlane on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:50PM (#38922458)
Most of the liquid spills I see are from people carrying water bottles in their bags with the laptop.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by jansimonek on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @01:07AM (#38922948)
Yup, just happened to me yesterday. I was in a hurry and didn’t screw lid of a coffee thermos correctly. Luckily the mac seems to have survived.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by chris_wot on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @01:45AM (#38923154)
I can confirm. I work at a school with a massive fleet of Macs. The kids generally kill their devices with water by keeping their water bottle in the same bag as their MacBook. Doesn’t matter how often I tell them not to, they insist on doing this.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by Someone on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @04:11AM (#38923932)
What do you expect them to do instead? Carry two bags? Keep the bottle in their hand at all times? I think both are highly inconvenient.

There are backpacks with bottle holders on the outside, but in my experience, those aren’t very good at holding a bottle.

Not bringing a bottle probably is the best option, but that may not be a good option in very hot climates.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by hutzlibu on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @04:23AM (#38924005)
What also works, is developing a habit of double checking bottles in your bag - as spilled liquids are never nice in your stuff.

And some backpacks actually have working bottle holders on the outside ...

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by chris_wot on Thursday January 11, 2024 @10:44AM (#38953757)
Yes. The risk of a water bottle opening in a student’s bag and ruining a laptop, causing a very expensive repair is worse than the inconvenience of keeping the bottle outside of their bag.

How would you avoid water damage due to the scenario? Or do you consider it normal and unavoidable?

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by dathinab on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @06:50AM (#38925031)
I seem to be an outlier.

Most of my cases where me toppling over some classes or bottles in a way where the liquid ended up directly on the open laptop.

On the other hand in my bag I normally have the Laptop in an additional sleeve, sometimes a double one, so any case where liquid ended up spilling in my backpack it at most lead to a slightly damp laptop due to the sleeves getting wet but nothing which causes water damage.

As a side note if used correctly a simple plastic bag (like a thing plastic shopping bag) as an additional sleeve around you laptop sleeve can be a trivial cheap way to get a surprising amount of waterproofing a laptop in a backpack. I don't do this on a daily basis but when traveling or similar I always hope to not forget to do it.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by threeseed on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:19PM (#38922262)
A lot of people in creative industries e.g. musicians, editors, designers etc often have to work outdoors sometimes in dusty, rugged areas.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by mschuster91 on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:12PM (#38922212)
> What do people who want use their macs out in the field do?

"Out in the field" jobs? That's typically stuff for heavily rugged Windows laptops (e.g. Panasonic Toughbook). I wonder what you could use a Mac device for in that area, the software used for such jobs (e.g. industrial control, car programming or mapping stuff) is almost exclusively Windows-only.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by Teever on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:21PM (#38922272)
What I mean by that is do people make quality waterproof cases for macs?

I wonder why Apple has never considered making a toughbook type machine for real field work.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by gumby on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:35PM (#38922364)
Volume, I’m sure. They sell a large volume of a small number of SKUs so go for the minimum feature set that can get them out a couple of sigmas of the target market. Anything else is aftermarket (special case) or just “buy something else”.

There are a few exceptions. I wonder how many Mac pros they really sell. I assume it’s really a “halo” product that sells more Mac studios and MacBook pros.

Also the Mac in general is a low volume product for Apple. It’s 10% of units in the PC market (but what % of profit?) and about 10% of their revenue. (If they were truly run with a bean counter mentality would they even ship Macs?)

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by frandroid on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @01:06AM (#38922945)
Half of developers in North America, and especially those at top tier companies, use Macs. You can't buy that kind of top tech mindshare with marketing. Also now with the M-series CPUs, Macbooks aren't PC Clones anymore, they're back in the game of being an exclusive platform, which will get even more exclusive as they add other specialized chips. Their sales share of the market and as you mention, their profit share of the market keeps increasing, so even on that alone, why would a bean counter decide to drop them?

Don't forget Apple's size... the AirPod business, stood alone, would be a Fortune 500 company. Even if an Apple business is a bit small compared to the iPhone, it's still a humongous business by any other comparator.

I'm not an Apple fanboy (e.g. I use an old Chinese Android phone) but I'm still awed by their business.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by mschuster91 on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @04:41AM (#38924136)
> Their sales share of the market and as you mention, their profit share of the market keeps increasing, so even on that alone, why would a bean counter decide to drop them?

Apple at the moment doesn't have any marketshare in rugged, "out in the field" laptop computers. Obviously if any company can brute force an entry into any market it's Apple, but they would need significant investments into third parties that hold potential customers hostage to Windows, and Apple Just Does Not Do That unless the third party in question is a direct supplier of theirs.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by zontorol on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:31PM (#38922338)
Toughbooks are not fashionable and look like tools.

Macbooks are supposed to look like jewelry.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by nijave on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:39PM (#38922402)
In a way, Toughbooks are the exact opposites of MacBooks.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by nailer on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @12:07AM (#38922566)
I wonder the same. We used to take cell phones not being waterproof as standard. Now everybody expects them to be waterproof.

The idea that is single spilled coffee can cause $1000 of damage or more to a laptop is ridiculous.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by blackoil on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @12:55AM (#38922872)
Spill proof should be possible reasonably. Think pad used to have channels for water drainage not sure they still have them. Dunking proof laptop would be possible but tradeoff not worth it.
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by ykonstant on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @01:59AM (#38923232)
They don't; they DON'T still have them. I pestered my department to get me a Lenovo instead of a Dell because I had bought into the reliability hype; one minor water-spill later, my laptop freaked out and since then has permanently degraded performance. See if I get another Lenovo ever again.

But anyway, if you are like me with arm mobility issues and in danger of spilling stuff on your laptop, get some custom made rugged laptop because no manufacturer cares anymore; if anything, they seem to care the other way round.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by DonHopkins on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @02:42AM (#38923470)
My x86 Macbook Pro ran so hot I could have used it to make coffee and foam milk!
Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by dathinab on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @06:40AM (#38924960)
Making a keyboard fully water proof is tricky and often leads to subpar experiences.

If you don't have a fan making everything else but the keyboard(and mousepad) water resistant is not hard, and with a bit more trickery about how the keyboard are connected you can get to everything but keyboard waterproof too.

Issue is then you also need a easy replaceable keyboard and hand replacement keyboard out so that people can have them ready them "just in case".

Which both doesn't seem in the interest of Apple if you look at their actions in recent years.

I think currently the best chance for a new consumer laptop which is water proof and convenient to use would be a tablet which has no fan but still provides okay performance and then some "dock on" keyboard like e.g. in the style of the Microsoft Surface or similar. Then you could have a version where the keyboard is also water proof or a version where if it drops in water you replace the nicer to use keyboard with a new one etc.

Re:Macs can now inform Apple if any liquids have been detect... by kjkjadksj on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @12:56PM (#38929383)
My iBook G4 I think was the last mac with a keyboard you could replace without using tools and opening the case.