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Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by technofiend on Monday January 08, 2024 @02:00PM (#38916477)
It's a legit question, but if you have to ask, then most likely OpenBSD is not for you. I don't say that out of some elitist or gatekeeping motive, rather I think most people who use it have a specific need for it, or feel strongly about the principles behind the OS, which are security first and secure-by-default.

Here's a breakdown of some technical differences between the two, but really if you want to explore alternatives to Linux or even Linux alternatives I highly recommend you do so, even OpenBSD, but I respectfully suggest you have a use case in mind first.

https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/difference-between-linux-and-o...

The security first/secure-by-default mindset in OpenBSD means the core distribution is very locked down. By that I mean there's very little in the base OS in terms of services. OpenBSD had a robust "ports" selection for things you may need to add.

My use case for OpenBSD was as a firewall, but it was eventually retired because it just couldn't keep up with my network speeds. It still is a secure unix server for things like radius authentication of wireless clients.

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by dbolgheroni on Monday January 08, 2024 @02:29PM (#38916840)
Just a minor note that you don't need a 3rd-party http daemon since there is one in base.

https://man.openbsd.org/httpd

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by technofiend on Monday January 08, 2024 @03:21PM (#38917555)
Thank you, I stand corrected: it's been a while and my faulty memory had httpd outside of core. I edited my upline comment to remove the erroneous example because I don't want to add noise.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by Apocryphon on Monday January 08, 2024 @02:30PM (#38916854)
What's the most casual user-friendly distro of *BSD out there? GhostBSD?
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by somat on Monday January 08, 2024 @04:44PM (#38918628)
I would suggest openbsd. it is not user friendly in the "hide all complexity from the user" sense but more like "this system is simple enough to understand yet full featured enough to work in".

The way I like to explain it is. if you like the unix operating environment, It is hard to do better than openbsd for a desktop system. If you are expecting something more like a mac or windows environment, there are options, but I suspect you would be better off with linux(or mac or windows for that matter).

Openbsd is comfortable in a way that is hard to explain. While largely this is just what what a person is used to. with obsd I have a good feel on how it works and goes together. something I never really felt with linux. however you do lose a lot of the network effect advantages that linux has.

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by antiframe on Monday January 08, 2024 @04:47PM (#38918650)
> What's the most casual user-friendly distro of *BSD out there? GhostBSD?

MacOS?

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by Y_Y on Monday January 08, 2024 @06:10PM (#38919759)
Ymmv, but I found macos might be friendly to the user, but only because it's getting to get money out of them. User-(bad)friendly.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by zilti on Monday January 08, 2024 @02:50PM (#38917119)
They're derivatives with their own kernel each, so in that regard the question does not make much sense. Due to its large amount of binary packages though, I'd say FreeBSD it is out of the big three.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by CodeCompost on Monday January 08, 2024 @03:59PM (#38918016)
Would it be fair to say the Arch Linux users will feel right at home with FreeBSD? They seem to have similar concepts.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by hnlmorg on Monday January 08, 2024 @07:41PM (#38920693)
Pre-systemd Arch felt very much like another BSD. At least about as close to one as a Linux could.

These days it’s a lot more Linux-y though.

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by Apocryphon on Monday January 08, 2024 @03:01PM (#38917276)
Just trying to identify what's the Mint/Ubuntu/Zorin/elementary OS equivalent of BSD in terms of ease of use.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by taylortbb on Monday January 08, 2024 @03:16PM (#38917506)
The point is that they're not really comparable. Mint/Ubuntu/etc all ship the same Linux kernel, that's why they're called distros. They're different distributions (distros) of the same software (Linux kernel, etc).

The different BSDs aren't distros, they are different kernels that are developed in parallel. Obviously there's shared history there, and some shared userspace, but FreeBSD and OpenBSD aren't just two different BSD distros of largely the same software.

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by parker_mountain on Monday January 08, 2024 @03:45PM (#38917836)
I'd say that if you're trying to find the Mint/Ubuntu/Zorin/elementary of BSD, then it's not really for you. The BSD ecosystem isn't really driven by ease of use, today they're more interested in various niches - hardware appliances, OS research, etc.

If you're curious about what unix is and what a bsd is, I would recommend netbsd or openbsd in a vm.

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by Apocryphon on Monday January 08, 2024 @04:42PM (#38918603)
Well of course they're not trying to replace macOS, for instance, but when an OS gets big enough to have offshoots and different front-ends and desktop environments and so forth, one would assume there are at least experimental attempts emphasizing ease of use, just like there are experiments to develop offshoots for any other purpose, from power users to pen testers. At least like, someone's toy project on GitHub or SourceForge. I just assumed BSD was big and well-established enough to have such efforts.

Besides GhostBSD, looks like there's also Lumina, MidnightBSD, FuryBSD, and TrueOS/Project Trident?

https://lumina-desktop.org

http://www.midnightbsd.org

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=furybsd

https://itsfoss.com/trueos-bsd-review/

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by stonogo on Monday January 08, 2024 @05:26PM (#38919174)
They're definitely trying to replace MacOS: https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by parker_mountain on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @01:18AM (#38923021)
> experimental attempts emphasizing ease of use

yes, i would define them very much as experimental

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by Apocryphon on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @02:45PM (#38930963)
Sure, but that does mean that there are BSD projects driven by ease of use as their niche.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by fullstop on Monday January 08, 2024 @08:21PM (#38921015)
I installed NetBSD in a VM last week, and it felt like I was using Linux from 20 years ago.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by miah_ on Monday January 08, 2024 @09:14PM (#38921366)
Is that a bad thing?
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by fullstop on Monday January 08, 2024 @09:17PM (#38921389)
For some things I felt a bit nostalgic, but for other things, not so much.

It was a neat experience and worth doing.

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by zilti on Monday January 08, 2024 @03:31PM (#38917674)
Probably still FreeBSD, even though I'd claim NetBSD's documentation is a tad better. (And Ubuntu really does not stand out as beginner-friendly compared to e.g. openSUSE)
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by spookie on Monday January 08, 2024 @09:04PM (#38921302)
openSUSE is a gem.

I can't even fathom how many times I've made a mess from my impulses to tidy up my system and it just manages to "fix itself".

There are also a lot of neat things, like being able to use multiple versions of GCC side by side. Not every distro behaves well on that regard.

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by DeathArrow on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @02:54AM (#38923530)
You can try ravynOS or helloSystem. They are FreeBSD distros made with desktop users and ease of use in mind.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by artsi0m on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @07:32AM (#38925378)
OpenBSD is in fact already pretty much user-friendly. Installer is simple, althought an a textual interface. It comes with preinstalled X server and window managers fvwm and cwm. In the installer you can choose Xenodm to start automatically after boot, it would be your display manager and you can just simply login through it to fvwm. From here you can edit .xsession and choose any window manager you installed or pre-installed cwm.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by kuon on Monday January 08, 2024 @02:15PM (#38916673)
I stil use OpenBSD as firewall as I love PF. But I have the same problem as it cannot easily firewall 10G link. I am curious, what did you migrate to?
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by technofiend on Monday January 08, 2024 @02:37PM (#38916938)
I keep switching things around. Virtualization comes with its own limits but is a fast way to prototype things like 'how hard is it to get IPV6 PDUs working in this new os?'

Pfsense is ok, but CE went a year without an update while they worked on other branches. Most recently their switch to kea dhcp broke some minor things like mapping static DHCP addresses to DNS entries. I believe that's fixed now, but need to confirm you can also still specify a DHCP option which some network devices need.

Opnsense is also decent and has the advantage of a regular update cadence, but I believe the UI is less newbie friendly. Fedora has the advantage of a UI to let you quickly review firewall rules, although the cli is perfectly workable once you get the syntax down.

Honestly I like OpenBSD's pf too but it couldn't keep up with a one gigabit network connection on your typical AliExpress firewall appliance, and I couldn't get it there virtually on an HP 360 Gen 8 or Gen 9 with decent Xeon CPUs and network cards. Probably a limitation of the network drivers for the network cards emulated by ESXi. I resisted being nerd sniped by that because my wife needs reliable Internet so there was no time to putter.

What are you using that lets OpenBSD achieve better than gigabit speeds?

tl;dr: For now I'm using PFSense because I have a friend I supply with tech support and he uses whatever I use and it's safe for him to play around in PFSense on his own.

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by kuon on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @07:51PM (#38934658)
I have a ryzen with a Intel x520 nic and it handle gigabit easily. I plan to try 10gbit but my switches are not there yet, I am upgrading now.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by rubymamis on Monday January 08, 2024 @02:11PM (#38916607)
Compared to a Linux distro, would an end user have much better security out-of-the box, or would one need to be tech-savvy enough for that?
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by opencl on Monday January 08, 2024 @02:38PM (#38916956)
OpenBSD out of the box is an extremely minimal setup compared to the default install of most Linux distros.

A lot of the security of the default install comes from minimizing the attack surface by having very few services running. So you do not need to be tech-savvy to make it secure, but you might need to be tech-savvy to turn it into a usable system for your use case.

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by seanw444 on Monday January 08, 2024 @04:20PM (#38918322)
To add: it's not just the fact that it's barely running anything that makes it secure, but the things that you do run have effort put into making their codebase secure as well. Such as the various daemons, like httpd.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by miah_ on Monday January 08, 2024 @09:17PM (#38921396)
Also, the code for OpenBSD has been audited for "common" security issues, and hardened against various attack types.

https://www.openbsd.org/security.html

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by somat on Monday January 08, 2024 @10:37PM (#38921991)
OpenBSD out of the box is not minimal. As a base install it is more feature full than most linux base installs. It is small yes, but with a lot of high quality network focused services. I could easily run a company backend and network on only what is found in the base install. If I had a good solid group of people I could probably run the frontend on it. (the main thing it lacks is a web browser).

mail, web, routing, tunnels, bgp, dns, hell there is even an ldap server in there for some reason. but no ldap client, which kind of sucks.

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by binkHN on Monday January 08, 2024 @07:00PM (#38920340)
> My use case for OpenBSD was as a firewall, but it was eventually retired because it just couldn't keep up with my network speeds.

Are you doing over 10Gbps? A lot has been done in this space.

Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by technofiend on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:54PM (#38922496)
Based on someone else's comment I plan to revisit OpenBSD, because previously I wasn't able to get gigabit speeds out of a low-end appliance, even though FreeBSD and Fedora both could.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by binkHN on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @12:25AM (#38922679)
Things have definitely improved over time, but some of the best improvements are also related to utilizing advanced functionality from hardware that supports it.
Re:OpenBSD KDE Plasma Desktop by htamas on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @03:53AM (#38923834)
I respectfully disagree. I have very little Linux/Unix/xBSD maintenance knowledge, but I started running my own server for my personal email and website. Although I used a script as a crutch to set things up at the beginning (thanks to sive.rs/ti), when I started digging in how things work - and when I eventually run into some issues like expired certs - I managed to understand things much faster than when I was trying to run a server before with Ubuntu.

For example, Googling things are easier since the tools don't change much over the years, so an answer from 10-15 years ago still works. Besides that, I could find most of my answers in the very well written man pages. There's also just fewer things happening so there's not much clutter to distract me finding the answers I need.

I'm still a beginner of course, but I feel like OpenBSD is good for any application where you need to run something and then "forget about it" - be it a server or maybe even a "kiosk"/informational screen.