Re:Web0 Manifesto
by stolenmerch on Saturday January 06, 2024 @04:41PM
(#38895798)
"web0 is web3 without all the corporate right-libertarian Silicon Valley bullshit."
So, building normal small websites like we've always done? I'm honestly struggling to see what's going on here other than a couple of devs blowing off political steam. The Kitten project [0] looks cool, but it's basically any small client-side stack unless I'm missing a really crucial piece.
Re:Web0 Manifesto
by superkuh on Saturday January 06, 2024 @04:22PM
(#38895616)
web 1.0 was extremely decentralized. And now that everyone has fast connections everyone can easily host web 1.0 sites by installing nginx and putting html and files in directories and forwarding port 80 from their router. It's extremely low risk, no maintaince, low resource usage, and completely distributed. And it's okay if you shut down your computer and the webserver for days or weeks. Being up all the time is only a commercial requirement.
I think a real 'web0' like they're talking would be re-implementing Opera's good idea of integrating a working webserver that started up when you started your browser. Opera operated as a proxy for those hosted websites but that need not be the case.
Re:Web0 Manifesto
by clwg on Saturday January 06, 2024 @04:41PM
(#38895793)
I like it, but I'd probably put that on 443 with TLS. The threat model and attacks developed since web 1.0 have increased in complexity and sophistication and better to be safe than sorry.
Re:Web0 Manifesto
by superkuh on Saturday January 06, 2024 @04:45PM
(#38895829)
As an option that's fine but it brings in a big dependency stack and lots of moving parts. acme2 might not look like it from the user end but internally there's a lot that's going on those acme programs are hiding. HTTP+HTTPS assures a site doesn't die just because of a cert renewal or CA problem (like LE's root cert expiring a couple years back, the switch from acme 1 to acme 2, your particular acme client having a dep that breaks on update, etc).
While commercial and institutional sites do have to operate with a different security model these days, human people not involved in monetary exchange or private information have the same requirements as ever. HTTPS is optional. A nice add-on but not vital. And definitely not HTTPS only if you want your site to last more than a few years without active manual mantainance.
Re:Web0 Manifesto
by striking on Saturday January 06, 2024 @04:28PM
(#38895667)
I would be unsurprised if these folks are just making a point of being tired of having decentralization being conflated with capital by way of blockchains. Some apps don't need them, lots of people tried to shoehorn them in anyway, and a lot of potential and effort was squandered in the name of making money.
That being said, if that really is their take, I wish they'd say so.
Re:Web0 Manifesto
by simonw on Saturday January 06, 2024 @04:51PM
(#38895881)
At a guess: we have all been watching blockchain stuff evolve for 15 years at this point, we understand exactly how it works and what it does and we don't like it.
Re:Web0 Manifesto
by fsflover on Saturday January 06, 2024 @06:39PM
(#38896762)
Being "mostly scams" doesn't make cryptocurrencies useless. Otherwise you may also say the same about cash, Tor, darknet, emails and many other things.
Re:Web0 Manifesto
by rchaud on Saturday January 06, 2024 @04:51PM
(#38895883)
These personal website directories are starting to pile up. Not a bad thing, but is there anything about this that couldn't be described as "personal website havers"?
What are some of those directories? I know exactly what you mean but (perhaps because it isn’t in Google’s interest) I can’t actually find any by searching for “small web directories” or other indie web terms.
As opposed to which "centralized" web?
Also why is the website called small-web.org and not decentralized-web.org? Decentralized and small are two different things...
So, building normal small websites like we've always done? I'm honestly struggling to see what's going on here other than a couple of devs blowing off political steam. The Kitten project [0] looks cool, but it's basically any small client-side stack unless I'm missing a really crucial piece.
[0] https://codeberg.org/kitten/app
I think a real 'web0' like they're talking would be re-implementing Opera's good idea of integrating a working webserver that started up when you started your browser. Opera operated as a proxy for those hosted websites but that need not be the case.
While commercial and institutional sites do have to operate with a different security model these days, human people not involved in monetary exchange or private information have the same requirements as ever. HTTPS is optional. A nice add-on but not vital. And definitely not HTTPS only if you want your site to last more than a few years without active manual mantainance.
Essentially saying that the only valid use for blockchain is cryptocurrencies (and then you have to decide if you want cryptocurrencies or not).
That being said, if that really is their take, I wish they'd say so.
However, also blockchain is a platform for cryptocurrencies with no other use cases. Cryptocurrencies are mostly scams, bubbles and criminality.
In essence you are wrong about this forum and about blockchain.
- Kagi Small Web
- ooh.directory
- RSS Club
to name a few.
What the hell does that even refer to
More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29767375