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Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by ho_schi on Sunday December 31, 2023 @11:43AM (#38825303)
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/1154

You can install it upon Arch from AUR.

Putting that aside:

Windows users always find a reason not to switch to Linux because some missing feature. In two years? There will be another new feature or game on Windows. I remember people insisting on using Windows because it support their „3D-Shutter glasses“ or their card from Nvidia. Either you want use Linux or not :)

Why are many features initially only available on Windows?

First. That is wrong. Important features like cgroups, namespace and containers/Flatpak where novelly developed upon Linux.

Second? MBAs only look at past numbers. So Windows often get traditional Windows stuff first. You make guess it, innovative companies care about what will be possible in future. Valve for example.

The MBA style thinking is also in many consumers. Still buying Nvidia? Because they were faster in the paper sheet? I prefer the cards which works well with Linux, so AMD or Intel. Frames actually generated are more worth than problems with proprietary drivers.

PS: Linux has maybe won the war against drives. Seems like Nvidia open most stuff slowly and feature land in the nouveau-module or mesa. A decade to late. I’m already in Team AMD ;)

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by Arnavion on Sunday December 31, 2023 @12:23PM (#38825647)
>First. That is wrong. Important features like cgroups, namespace and containers/Flatpak where novelly developed upon Linux.

I get your overall point, but the first "process containers" code that later became cgroups was merged to the kernel in 2007. Windows came out with the Job Objects API in Windows 2000 (NT 5.0) in 2000.

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by jxf on Sunday December 31, 2023 @12:39PM (#38825817)
IMO, the Job Objects API was not really suitable to use in production settings; it had many weird edge cases, so although it looked similar to cgroups it often broke in strange and unpredictable ways.
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by hhh on Sunday December 31, 2023 @12:07PM (#38825511)
I don’t want to tweak stuff for a week to get a comparable experience playing games to a fresh W11 install.
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by developerDan on Sunday December 31, 2023 @12:25PM (#38825671)
Why don’t people like Linux? Because it takes 8 bloody commands to do something as simple as add a new drive whereas Windows you can just open disk utility and format. I bounced off Linux a few weeks ago over this. It’s for people who want to tinker more than actually use the system.
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by bisby on Sunday December 31, 2023 @12:38PM (#38825804)
That's untrue though. Linux has a disk utility (I use gparted personally). And you can surely do it on the command line in a single command.

On Linux you could automate that task. How would you propose automating "open disk utility and click a few buttons" on Windows?

This is less of a "Linux can't" issue and more of a "I quickly know how to do it on Windows after years of experience and I don't know how to do it on Linux." Linux not being identical to Windows isn't a flaw. No one blames you for not wanting to relearn, but pretending like Linux is bad because your Windows muscle memory doesn't apply is nonsense.

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by developerDan on Sunday December 31, 2023 @01:48PM (#38826408)
When I Googled how to complete this task I came across multiple results all of which suggesting to use a string of CLI commands. GParted was suggested in some of the results but it wasn’t installed by default on the distro I was recommended (Lubuntu) so I had to punch in even more commands to get it installed. Then after creating the partition it was still unusable until I mounted the drive (which wasn’t clear until after Googling why I can’t use it). Mounting required yet more commands. I did a cursory glance at the GUI buttons on GParted and didn’t see a simple mounting option. If you can’t mount in GParted then my claim still stands that it’s much more effort, and obscure, than Windows which automatically “mounts” the drive so to speak, when you create the partition.
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by iknowstuff on Sunday December 31, 2023 @04:25PM (#38827652)
I swear the biggest problem with linux is the nerds pushing newbies towards esoteric garbage distros instead of established and widely supported ones like straight up Ubuntu with Gnome.
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by bisby on Sunday December 31, 2023 @06:11PM (#38828323)
The biggest problem with linux is definitely finding the right distro. Ubuntu is awful. With their move towards "snaps everything" it just keeps getting worse. Canonical is basically Linux's Microsoft. A lot of the "established" stuff on Ubuntu is just duct tape that actually makes it worse overall. Ubuntu might have an easier getting started experience, but it's not a good long term experience.
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by iknowstuff on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @10:50PM (#38862785)
Snaps are fine.
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by bisby on Wednesday January 17, 2024 @07:49PM (#39035943)
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/01/valve-dont-recommend-ubu...

Snaps are not "fine."

They're generally worse than debs, and worse than alternative "all in one" package formats like flatpak or appimage. And when coupled with "not packaged by the original devs" leads to issues where people have issues and then raise bug reports to the wrong people, but beginners don't know that the snap is packaged entirely by Canonical, and not Valve, and just results in a poorer experience.

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by ParetoOptimal on Sunday December 31, 2023 @02:51PM (#38826959)
> GParted was suggested in some of the results but it wasn’t installed by default on the distro I was recommended (Lubuntu

You got a less than stellar recommendation based on your desire for parity with ease of use with windows. Lubuntu is a more niche distro aimed at lower resource usage at the expense of the ease of use you are looking for.

If you had installed KDE, you'd likely have explored the start menu and found gparted or typed 'disk' into search and found gparted.

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by ziml77 on Sunday December 31, 2023 @06:04PM (#38828289)
There's still other things that are absurd to do under Linux. Like turning off write caching for removable drives. Unless something has changed in the past couple years, you need to either manually edit fstab per-drive or setup udev rules.

(Not write caching for removable drives should just be the default. Windows hasn't used write caching on removable drives for 20 years. It also presents a toggle in the drive properties if you really do want it on though.)

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by accelbred on Sunday December 31, 2023 @12:36PM (#38825790)
On Gnome, you open the disk manager. You click format.

In fact a lot of things are easier. On windows, you need a third party tool to install an iso onto a disk. On Gnome, you open disk manager, right click disk, click restore from image.

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by freedomben on Sunday December 31, 2023 @01:11PM (#38826116)
You bounced quickly then without trying very hard. Gnome comes with a GUI disk utility tool pre-installed that is easy enough for a Windows user ;-)
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by developerDan on Sunday December 31, 2023 @01:55PM (#38826467)
I was recommended a distro that doesn’t use Gnome (Lubuntu). The system I was working with is very old and some light research made it seem like Gnome is pretty resource heavy.
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by chronogram on Sunday December 31, 2023 @03:42PM (#38827365)
How old are we talking about? 10+ years ago I was running Gnome3 on decent hardware of the time, and everything was snappy[0]. Now all the OS software got faster since then, so everything is still snappy on that thing despite that hardware now being old. Similarly that laptop came with Windows 7 and that was snappy, and the Windows 2021 LTSC on it is also snappy[0].

0: I care about responsiveness, so I've always disabled animations on every device, so I have no experience if some animations can run at 60fps on some hardware and 30fps on others.

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by ParetoOptimal on Sunday December 31, 2023 @02:52PM (#38826967)
I think a lot of times recommending Lubuntu or other niche distros to first-time linux users is a mistake.

Instead one should recommend using KDE or Gnome and turning down all of the graphical settings if needed to improve performance.

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by mattl on Sunday December 31, 2023 @03:34PM (#38827310)
I think it comes from the idea that you should install Linux to get more time out of aging hardware.
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by ParetoOptimal on Sunday December 31, 2023 @03:38PM (#38827341)
Yeah, but for first time users I maintain it'd be better to risk potential slowness than "fast but unacceptable user experience".
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by mattl on Sunday December 31, 2023 @05:50PM (#38828209)
Fully agree. I don’t really know what the user groups are doing these days? Are installfests still a thing?
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by COGlory on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @09:17PM (#38849875)
I've literally never used commands to do anything with a disk. I open KDE Partition Manager and do everything in a really nice GUI. `
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by LegitShady on Sunday December 31, 2023 @02:18PM (#38826662)
to be fair a fresh W11 install still doesn't have a usable taskbar or start menu - you have to install explorer patcher to get those back.
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by brnt on Sunday December 31, 2023 @04:37PM (#38827721)
Looking back, that may have been my switching point: when setting up my distro of choice took less time then windows after a fresh install. Life without package managers, even now that there is chocolatey, is just unnecessary pain. And as a DE, windows had no edge over something like KDE.
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by ho_schi on Monday January 01, 2024 @03:00AM (#38830347)
An operating-system without a package-manager is not maintable.

It hard to install, update or remove software. The validation of the system isn’t possible. Aside from the missing security.

On Windows changing a setting has become a horrible task for me. Where is it? Why does the search doesn’t find it? Should I try to find the Win32-Dialog from Win2k or is this setting in WinUI3 the same? Why I have to sit in front of an installer wizard an „click through it“?

On Steam I can do a file check of a game and it verifies its integrity? My wish. All package-managers on Linux should provide that :)

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by NekkoDroid on Monday January 01, 2024 @10:30AM (#38832434)
I haven't exactly ever tested myself this, but apparently most of the major distros have a way to do that: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Rosetta#Verification...
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by hhh on Sunday December 31, 2023 @05:48PM (#38828200)
both are perfectly usable
Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by ho_schi on Sunday December 31, 2023 @03:08PM (#38827095)
I want tweak stuff to make it fit better for me. I don’t want tweak stuff to get it initial usable.

Likewise the rationale why people buy the Steamdeck. Other than Windows it just works. And it is tweakable.

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by FirmwareBurner on Sunday December 31, 2023 @01:18PM (#38826167)
>Windows users always find a reason not to switch to Linux because some missing feature.

Because the OS is a tool, not a religious/political statement.

Therefore I'll use it if it works the way I need it and it solves my problem, or not use it if it doesn't work the way I want it and ends up creating more problems for me than it solves. Simple.

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by luma on Sunday December 31, 2023 @01:23PM (#38826205)
You're using the phrase "MBA thinking" to mean "making decisions based on your personal use case and identifying solutions which match".

I'm not sure how this is a bad thing. I don't run Linux to run games because Windows is a better supported platform for running games. I'm not "looking at past numbers", I'm looking at the situation in front of me as it exists, setting aside my personal feeling on what might have been and instead focusing on what actually exists, today, for the problem I am looking to solve today.

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by ho_schi on Sunday December 31, 2023 @03:04PM (#38827060)
„Today“…MBA-Thinking.

I don’t want a huge problem tomorrow.

Re:I forked SteamOS for my living room PC by luma on Monday January 01, 2024 @05:36AM (#38830943)
So you trade that for even larger problems today? You do you but I just want to play some games.