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Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by K0nserv on Thursday December 28, 2023 @05:59AM (#38792177)
Apple, in my opinion, does a very good job of supporting old devices. Buying an iPhone and keeping it for 6 years is a great strategy and when amortising the cost of the phone over those 6 years, it's price competitive with Android.

I do wish legislators forced Apple and Google to give users a path to install an alternative OS on their device. That would enable old iPhones(and Androids) to have their lifetime extended further.

Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by izacus on Thursday December 28, 2023 @06:11AM (#38792258)
> I do wish legislators forced Apple and Google to give users a path to install an alternative OS on their device.

All Google phones allow installation of alternative OSes (and are pretty much the only phones that allow resigning the boot loader so they're still secure - which is why they're chosen by projects like GrapheneOS). Why do you think they need to be forced into anything? You can buy a Pixel right now and run an alternative OS.

Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by zote on Thursday December 28, 2023 @06:24AM (#38792350)
I interpret their comment as suggesting that Apple should adopt a similar approach, and that Google, as a platform owner, should mandate this requirement for licensing Android™ (not AOSP) to other OEMs (I've had several phones whose bootloader couldn't be unlocked), and for this to be a practice enshrined by law for any other such companies that could operate in a similar position.
Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by K0nserv on Thursday December 28, 2023 @06:18AM (#38792298)
Yeah I know some devices already support this, the point of forcing it via legislation would be for those that don't.

I think this is also the answer to "the app store question". It feels unfair to force Apple to change a core value proposition by forcing them to allow side loading, but in the spirit of "It's my device" it should be possible to install an OS that makes a different tradeoff e.g. Android

Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by blacksoil on Thursday December 28, 2023 @06:30AM (#38792389)
I think the biggest problem is in the alternative OS. Non-official OSes typically are unstable that I personally find not worth the time given phone is quite important piece of communication. As others have already mentioned, certain lines and brands, such as One Plus, Google Pixels, etc have unlockable bootloader so people are free to install custom OSes.
Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by andrepd on Thursday December 28, 2023 @09:23AM (#38793730)
I've been installing alternative ROMs on my android phones for almost 15 years. Never did I have any stability issues, on the contrary: the community ROMs often did a much better job than the official ones in terms of battery management, etc.
Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by d3w4s9 on Friday December 29, 2023 @07:22AM (#38804177)
Not trying to contradict what your say, but my experience from a few years ago was:

* If you don't use a super popular model, you would have very few choices for custom ROMs * Often custom ROMs are still at the mercy of original manufacturer for certain hardware support -- e.g. they need to release "base AOSP image" or something like that * Custom ROMs often had random things not working, e.g. NFC not functional or cell/WiFi signal weaker than stock ROM * Some come with certain crappy preinstalled apps. Sure you can remove them, but still annoying * Battling SafetyNet was a cat-and-mouse game which I gave up * Browsing xda-developers forum and following the latest reply of a 10-page, 200-post thread like back in the early 2000s was the only way to get updates of a certain ROM. OTA updates were mostly out of the question * ... and many more added to this

I don't know how much has changed, hopefully a lot. I don't doubt if you have a phone of a popular model, you can find a custom ROM that does not make compromises and is much cleaner and better than the stock ROM. But these days I simply don't have any time for tasking the risk and messing with these things and worry WiFi might not work in some cases.

Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday December 28, 2023 @06:36AM (#38792429)
>Buying an iPhone and keeping it for 6 years is a great strategy and when amortising the cost of the phone over those 6 years, it's price competitive with Android.

What's stopping you from keeping your Android 6 years making it an event better value? Most people I know don't throw away their Androids after 3 years but keep them as long as iPhones. Basically until it breaks/dies. So far I don't know anyone who got hacked and suffered damages for using an Android that stopped getting updates.

Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by K0nserv on Thursday December 28, 2023 @07:00AM (#38792579)
Shorter patch cycles - at least historically, I haven't kept pace with the Android ecosystem. That said, with Android you can use a different OS and keep the device secured
Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday December 28, 2023 @07:10AM (#38792665)
Sure, but like I said, people don't throw away their phones once they get stop getting SW patches the same way they don't throw away their ancient Macbooks with glowing Apple logos just because Apple stopped pushing OS updates years ago, because most non-HN people have no idea what patches are and they keep their phone and laptop as long as it still works and the battery lasts.

Obsession with zero day patches and security hypochondria is mostly a HN/tech-workers thing as if they're under attack by state actors using Pegasus. The average joe doesn't care not is he very likely to be impacted, unless using Android Jellybean or something, since most malware in the wild out to get them is script kiddie level not state-actor level.

And anyway, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but from my knowledge and experience with Android security, most Android critical vulns that can impact the day to day security of the Average Joe are covered by updating Google Play services and Chrome or whatever browser you use as those are the main attack surfaces for (non state sponsored) malware based on what people do with their phones, and those services keep getting updates from Google long after the manufacturers stopped pushing OS updates.

Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by signal11 on Thursday December 28, 2023 @07:45AM (#38792912)
> So far I don't know anyone who got hacked and suffered damages for using an Android that stopped getting updates.

That’s a “hope for the best” approach to security, for me it’d be irresponsible to recommend it to even friends and family.

But if you want to do it with knowledge of the potential problems — go for it. It’s your phone and your data.

Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by FirmwareBurner on Thursday December 28, 2023 @07:48AM (#38792937)
Please don't twist my words. I never said anything about recommending such a lifestyle to people. All I said was, using older devices without SW support, is the reality for a lot of people if you care to leave the tech bubble and see what devices people actually use, especially the not well off ones. Yes, a lot of people keep using their older device and they haven't got hacked. How do you get them to stop using their older devices, if they're happy with them and see no obvious threat and don't want to buy a new one?

Here's a though exercise: Most people use their device for browsing the web and messaging people, right? So as long as you keep your Play Services, browser and messenger apps up to date, how will malware get to the outdated layers of your OS to PWN you? Especially that modern web browsers and Andorid use sandboxing for apps and web tabs. I'm talking about realistic documented scenarios from the wild that have happened and are likely to repeat again, not state actors or scenarios from research labs where they hack you through the firmware vulns of the baseband modem.

Like I said, I'm not recommending you still use unpatched devices, but the realistic risk from using an Andorid device that stopped getting updates a year or so is relatively minimal in practice, otherwise there would be mass hacks and credential thefts left and right on a daily basis considering how many unpatched Android phones are out there.

Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by windexh8er on Thursday December 28, 2023 @09:41AM (#38793886)
Not when you can load an OS like Calyx [0], GrapheneOS [1] or LineageOS [2]. In this context the iPhone ends up the true "hope for the best" option. The original Pixel / Pixel XL (2016.10.04) can still run the latest LineageOS with current patches [3].

[0] https://www.lineageos.org/ [1] https://grapheneos.org/ [2] https://calyxos.org/ [3] https://download.lineageos.org/devices/sailfish/changes

Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by signal11 on Thursday December 28, 2023 @01:31PM (#38796752)
I was responding to the parent who recommended using unpatched, out of support Android.

People who’re comfortable (or can be bothered) installing alternative OSes on their phones have an entirely different view on device obsolescence. Statistically they’re also a rounding error in the total mobile-using population.

Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by windexh8er on Friday December 29, 2023 @10:53AM (#38806231)
> Statistically they’re also a rounding error in the total mobile-using population.

Understood, but that has no bearing on the point being argued. You have no control over Apple IOS hardware after Apple stops supporting it. The fact that there is that "rounding error" is good for everyone as it is a force against closing that ecosystem which currently exists. It matters.

Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by _____k on Thursday December 28, 2023 @10:55AM (#38794672)
Well android patching after 3 years is pretty new thing compared to Apple policy. Apple was and is keeping security updates for very long time with major updates on top of that for iOS. Not knowing someone does not mean they will not be hacked or already has not been by downloading some app from the store.
Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by d3w4s9 on Friday December 29, 2023 @07:25AM (#38804192)
No real change is going to happen. Out of all the mobile phone users out there, likely no more than 0.1% will ever consider installing alternative OS on their phone, even if allowed by law. Just look at the size of the custom ROM community in Android and real world impact.
Re:No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS v... by artjomb on Monday January 08, 2024 @02:16PM (#38916682)
Yes, Apple is supporting older devices, but has made my SE 2020 nearly unusable (slow as hell, horrible UI bugs when typing) after updating to iOS 17. Everything worked perfectly until then. It seems as though Apple wants me to buy a more expensive phone. A friend had the exact same problem and now upgraded to a newer model.