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Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by kleton on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @10:59AM (#38783215)
This kind of filler-laden writing will be quickly eradicated, like the cockroach, but by AI. I had bing or copilot, whatever microsoft is calling it in the edge sidebar answer the question I clicked the bait for.

> According to the article, they solved the cockroach infestation by using a new product called Combat, which was a bait that contained a slow-acting poison that could kill roaches through various mechanisms of transfer, such as feces, vomit, cannibalism, and necrophagy. The bait was attractive to roaches and could wipe out entire colonies, even if only a fraction of them ate it. The product was developed by American Cyanamid, a chemical company, and tested by Austin Frishman, a cockroach expert. The product was launched in 1985 and became a huge success, reducing cockroach complaints and populations across the country. The article claims that this was a forgotten achievement in the history of pest control, and that the roaches are slowly coming back due to behavioral resistance to the bait.

Source: Conversation with Bing, 12/27/2023 (1) The Cockroach Cure - The Atlantic. https://www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/archive/2023/11/cockroa.... (2) Cockroach Infestation - Signs, Prevention, and Control of Roaches. https://www.familyhandyman.com/article/cockroach-infestation.... (3) How To Get Rid Of Roaches - This Old House. https://www.thisoldhouse.com/pest-control/reviews/how-to-get.... (4) How To Get Rid Of Roaches – Forbes Home. https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/pest-control/how-to-....

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by CommieBobDole on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @11:13AM (#38783371)
>This kind of filler-laden writing will be quickly eradicated

It's a transcript of a podcast. I agree it was annoying to read, but the purpose of a podcast is not maximum-efficiency transmission of information.

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by throwawaysugar on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @11:50AM (#38783807)
> It's a transcript of a podcast.

That's almost the perfect definition of "lazy journalism".

Not to mention it litters the actual cockroach topic with writerly pontification on a specific subset of NY culture, some distorted view of valor, and generational differences.

It's tiring. It's also part of what makes NY so unattractive these days.

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by striking on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:02PM (#38783943)
Is it such a travesty that someone decided to include a personal anecdote as a throughline? Does every article published need to be hard-hitting "journalism"?

Sometimes it's nice to listen to something with some personality, something that isn't so plain. I'm not in a rush today.

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by throwawaysugar on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:13PM (#38784055)
There's a whole world between "including a personal anecdote" and "making the entire article about your anecdote and sprinkling in some actual content"

No, I don't care about their kids and whether they are brave or not. What does that have to do with cockroaches? Who cares about their kids? Why are we even talking about kids here?

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by Hovertruck on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:00PM (#38784580)
>> It's a transcript of a podcast.

> That's almost the perfect definition of "lazy journalism".

They produced, edited, interviewed multiple people including one of the people who worked directly on the project in question, and then provided a transcript of their conversation to make it accessible to a wider audience and that's lazy journalism?

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by moogleii on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:02PM (#38784604)
Agree there was a lot of filler, but to be fair, your odd out-of-place zinger is just as annoying as the podcast. Fairly unattractive. And the cycle continues.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by throwawaysugar on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:04PM (#38784636)
Except this is a comment section for discussion, so it's appropriate to discuss and point out this issue which IMHO contaminates nearly all forms of media today.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by IshKebab on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:12PM (#38784041)
Who wants to read a transcript of a podcast. 99% invisible does this so much better - a long podcast with all the details, accompanied by a short article with photos. More work of course, but that's what the AI solves.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by black_puppydog on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:14PM (#38784740)
People who can't hear, just for example?

And fwiw, "this isn't condensed enough" could be applied to 100% of novels, achieving a 100% compression rate, since none of it is useful.

I'm very sorry if you're the one person with a cockroach infestation that has to be eradicated right now and you critically depend on the information in this one article and don't have access to any other resources, but maybe just accept that there are different writing styles for different things, audiences, and even over time for the same person.

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by IshKebab on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @03:29PM (#38786326)
> People who can't hear, just for example?

I don't see why people who can't hear would like to read a transcript of a podcast rather than an article either.

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by webdoodle on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:10PM (#38784027)
All good conversations ebb and flow, and the interview process is just trying to distill the conversation to some entertaining or useful end. Some would use A.I. in an attempt to distill it more, and may find some gem or morsel worth consuming, but miss the depth and value of the conversation itself. It may be time saving for information transfer, but at the expense of the connection that a conversation grants the participants (and to a slightly lesser degree listeners).

Remember that this technology was developed for the NSA because of the data deluge it's surveillance systems created. Who had time to listen to hours of recorded phone calls looking for potential dangerous activity? Speech to text helped alleviate the problem for a short while, but when the internet took away the monopoly the phone companies had on long-distance calls, the volume of international calls went ballistic, and the NSA needed a way of filtering the data to something more useful. In comes A.I. to the rescue!

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by datameta on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @11:57AM (#38783885)
While I will certainly find AI summarization useful I think in this case the summary misses the human experiential component that we get from the recollections of the host and guest.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by ninkendo on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:03PM (#38783945)
Precisely what I don’t care to read. Especially when they start the article giving background, tease that there’s an important thing coming, and then instead of getting to the point, it starts an interview which resets the conversation back to talking about the background again. I absolutely hated everything about the way this article was written.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by hackernewds on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:18PM (#38784109)
Might you share what your question was? Or did you simply say "summarize"
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by throwawaysugar on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @11:58AM (#38783898)
Yeah, I'd prefer to be spared from the host and the guest. My time is better spent living my own life than reading about the lives of others (unless I'm reading about something truly great that some truly great person accomplished or failed to accomplish).
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by datameta on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:14PM (#38784059)
In my case the turning point of roach infestation in the late 80s was not something I have memories of so I was curious what it was like to live through. They touched on an important point, I think, where the widespread nuclear anxiety from the cold war and national pervasive roach anxiety began to dissipate at about exactly the same time.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by jurassic on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:13PM (#38784052)
If your time is so valuable, why are you spending it creating throwaway accounts just to hate on somebody else's content? If you don't like it, just move on. You're not adding anything to the conversation here.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by kibwen on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @02:54PM (#38785861)
There's an incredible recurring phenomenon of people registering throwaway accounts on HN to talk shit while also claiming that they "don't care" about the topic. The irony is stupefying.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by wolverine876 on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:04PM (#38783965)
I agree about the writing, and I gave up on the article.

How do you know it's accurate? How do you know which details are accurate? For example, was it called Combat, or was that another product in the article (maybe a failed one)? What important information was omitted?

Issues like that make the summary useless, IMHO. (Not a criticism, but a point about the value of information with unknown accuracy.)

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by graphe on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:21PM (#38784134)
AI summaries have been common on Reddit for almost a decade now. Where does the problem of "accuracy" come in? They weren't even using LLMs
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by wolverine876 on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:30PM (#38784241)
How does that address the issue? Being common on Reddit (or any social media) isn't evidence of a good idea. It could be just as accurate or inaccurate on Reddit, for years.

> "accuracy"

How could there be scare quotes around accuracy? You question its reality or importance?

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by graphe on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:56PM (#38784544)
Where is there ANY evidence that these summaries aren't accurate? Until you produce it, it's as substantial as ghosts and evil spirits.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by wolverine876 on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:02PM (#38784611)
The burden of proof is the reverse, in any field of knowledge it's on the person making the claim. I could make up anything in the world (and many people do); it's the requirement for support that separates truth from fiction, science from fraud, fact from misinformation. You can't publish a scientific paper without evidence, and say 'it's true until someone proves otherwise'; it's false until you prove it. Same in a courtroom or anywhere else.

Until there is sufficient evidence that the summary is accurate, there's no reason to believe that it is.

fwiw, all caps is against HN guidelines. I'm mentioning it because there seems to be a rash of it this week.

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by graphe on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:34PM (#38784970)
> The burden of proof is the reverse, in any field of knowledge it's on the person making the claim.

You made an unprovoked claim of inaccuracy based on what?

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by wolverine876 on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @01:45PM (#38785089)
The universal, clever retort! Let's agree then that nothing is demonstrated without sufficient evidence.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by makeworld on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @11:03AM (#38783259)
It was entertaining to read.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by J_Shelby_J on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:01PM (#38783929)
I understand what you mean, but if you subscribe to the Atlantic it’s because you actually want long form writing from some of the best essayists of our time.

It’s not for everyone. Especially when our attention spans are shorter than ever.

Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by joenot443 on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:05PM (#38783969)
To be fair, this one is a transcription of a podcast. It's not really the kind of long form writing Atlantic is famous for, so I can understand the GP wanting a shorter version.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by pfdietz on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:10PM (#38784023)
Podcasts are also insufferable. Just so inefficient.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by graphe on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @12:18PM (#38784100)
At what? They're like tv in the background to me.
Re:We Turned the Tide in the Roach Wars by oconnor663 on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @11:12AM (#38783360)
I think it's a transcript of a podcast, to be fair. But yeah I had the same reaction.