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Re:Epic win: Jury decides Google has illegal monopoly in app... by echelon on Monday December 11, 2023 @09:11PM (#38608415)
Apple is horrible, but Google isn't blameless.

Google and Apple are a duopoly that controls one of the most essential devices of our time. Their racket extends more broadly than Standard Oil. The smartphone is a critical piece of modern life, and these two companies control every aspect of them.

  - Tax 30%
  - Control when and how software can be deployed
  - Can pull software or deny updates
  - Prevent web downloads (Apple)
  - Sell ads on top of your app name or brand
  - Scare / confuse users about web downloads or app installs (Google)
  - Control the payment rails 
  - Enforce using their identity and customer management (Apple)
  - Enforce using their payment rails (Apple) 
  - Becoming the de-facto POS payment methods (for even more taxation) 
  - Partnering with governments to be identity providers
  - Default search provider
  - Default browser
  - Prevent other browser runtimes (Apple)
  - Prevent browser tech from being comparable to native app installs (mostly Apple)
  - Unfriendly to repairs
  - Unfriendly to third party components (Apple) 
  - Battery not replaceable 
  - Unofficial pieces break core features due to crytographic signing (Apple) 
  - Updates obsolete old hardware 
  - Green bubbles (Apple) 
  - Tactics to cause FOMO in children (Apple)
  - Growth into media (movie studios, etc.) to keep eyeballs on their platforms (Apple) 
  - Growth into music to keep eyeballs on their platforms 
There are no other companies in the world with this level of control over such an important, cross-cutting, cross-functional essential item.

If we compared the situation to auto manufacturers, there would be only two providers, you could only fuel at their gas stations, they'd charge businesses every time you visit, they'd display ads constantly, and you'd be unable to repair them without going to the provider.

There need to be more than two providers. And if we can't get more than two providers, then most of these unfair advantages need to be rolled back by regulators.

This is horrific.

Re:Epic win: Jury decides Google has illegal monopoly in app... by shiroiuma on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @02:05AM (#38610499)
>Battery not replaceable

You might be able to blame Apple for starting this and continuing it on their phones, but I don't think Google is pushing Android handset makers to do this at all, just like I don't think Google is pushing Samsung (and maybe some others) to eliminate 3.5mm headphone jacks on their phones. Unfortunately, I think this is one of those things where the whole industry is just copying each other. Non-removable batteries are better for manufacturers for various reasons, but bad for consumers, and they've conned consumers into accepting it.

>Unfriendly to repairs

Same here. Nothing is keeping Android phone makers from being repair-friendly.

>Updates obsolete old hardware

This is Apple-only. The Android counterpoint is "Updates simply cease after 2-3 years, leaving you with security vulnerabilities that won't be fixed", but here again it's the fault of the handset makers, not Google: they're just too lazy, and Google is too stupid and short-sighted to force them to support their phones longer-term to improve the Android brand image.

Re:Epic win: Jury decides Google has illegal monopoly in app... by a1o on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @07:17AM (#38611215)
Hey, re-read the dude post you are replying, there are parentheses to signal which specific actor or none for both. Perhaps they weren't there when you answered.
Re:Epic win: Jury decides Google has illegal monopoly in app... by shiroiuma on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @08:48PM (#38621639)
Please re-read it yourself, and compare with my quotes: it hasn't changed since my reply and my quotes are still accurate. I'm just pointing out that there are a few points I disagree with, or which are really the fault of the hardware makers (in Android's case).
Re:Epic win: Jury decides Google has illegal monopoly in app... by ralfd on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @08:55AM (#38612086)
This discussion is as old as PC vs console gaming. Point being this horrible walled garden also provides ease of use, makes some features even possible in the first place, and I don't need to worry that my mother is installing keylogger or malware.
Re:Epic win: Jury decides Google has illegal monopoly in app... by kaladin-jasnah on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @10:49AM (#38613751)
The way you put itβ€”"FOMO in children," really does it justice. The way Apple uses their messaging service is almost psychological manipulation of children to increase their market share.

It's so sad that a company that resorts to those kinds of tactics to increase their market share, as opposed to, just selling more of their product because it's a superior product.

Re:Epic win: Jury decides Google has illegal monopoly in app... by ryao on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @01:09PM (#38615971)
For what it is worth, Youtube's tax is around 70%, but people get to see non-monetized videos for free. Similarly, the Google Play Store lets people download software at no cost when no price has been attached to it by the developer, despite having to do the work of distributing it.

Also, the OS developer acting as a gatekeeper is necessary to prevent malware from getting onto devices. Without that, you have Windows where black hats trick the average user into installing malware constantly.

Almost everything you list is actually a positive thing, although I would be wasting my time to explain it to people who should take the time they put into complaining into developing their own competing platforms that align with their ideals. Please do put your energy into making a competing platform. We need more choices at the operating system level, and nothing people hope these lawsuits would accomplish would give us that.

Re:Epic win: Jury decides Google has illegal monopoly in app... by smoldesu on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @04:01PM (#38618444)
YouTube's tax is not comparable to the Play Store or the App Store because other identical services exist. Pretty much anyone immediately familiar with Google or Apple's infrastructure would laugh that off - you cannot replace the App Store in the same way. Unlike YouTube and Vimeo/Dailymotion, nobody is competing with the App Store to adjust it's taxation.

If Windows and MacOS imposed the same limitations, entire classes of software would stop getting distributed. Games would no longer be profitable enough to ship or diverse enough to compete in terms of profits. Professional software/plugin developers like Pro Tools, Panic! and U-He would lose the software margins they enjoy today and potentially stop supporting new OS releases. It happened already on MacOS after the depreciation of 32-bit apps and OpenGL.

> the OS developer acting as a gatekeeper is necessary to prevent malware from getting onto devices

You say that, but then viruses like Pegasus show up using nothing more than first-party Apple services. It's a bogus fearmongering tactic that cannot be used to justify not giving people a choice. User exploitation will exist as long as the user has enough power to act against their own interests. You'd have to remove the phone functionality to make a safe phone.

> Almost everything you list is actually a positive thing

> nothing people hope these lawsuits would accomplish would give us that.

Interesting, you sound incredibly desperate to dismiss the idea that legislation could fix this problem despite a lack of evidence. Wanna expand on that?