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Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by theandrewbailey on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @09:34AM (#38544369)
This is why I'm uncomfortable with paying for digital things that don't come in files and can't be used offline.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by mcpackieh on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @09:43AM (#38544515)
Yeah, I've bought a lot of software that gave me a digital download with no DRM/bullshit. I've bought a comedy central special this way too, as well as dozens of albums and books. It's a perfectly agreeable arrangement, but some companies don't want to sell me a clean no-bullshit product and so I won't buy anything from them at all.

The Rossman quote is very apt. If the "purchase" of a file won't give me ownership of the file, then pirating the file isn't theft.

Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by theturtletalks on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @10:16AM (#38544913)
That's why physical media is slowly fading. Users are shifting to "buying" digitally and companies will axe physical media the first chance they get.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by surge on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @10:24AM (#38545025)
Physical Media has its own DRM BS, hampering conversion to newer media formats for devices that are still sold and supported, but I digress.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by sonicanatidae on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @10:18AM (#38544936)
Ironic and predictable that the more they shift to the model that's designed to screw the customers, more customers will pirate media.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by NoMoreNicksLeft on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @12:07PM (#38546580)
> more customers will pirate media.

This seems improbable. Copying media (I've never hijacked a ship at sea) is a skilled activity. Those not constantly practicing the skill, soon lose it. It's not as if you can just ask somewhere how to do it... never mind the bad advice you'd get ("Just go to this shithole website with 1900 popups, postage-stamp sized streaming, and malware!"), but places like Reddit and other social media shut down any such conversations in a hurry. They're onboard with the status quo.

If someone who understood torrenting stopped 10 years ago, but feels compelled to start today, what can they do? Kickass is dead, Rarbg is dead. EZtv long gone. A half dozen others. Many of the private trackers are gone, but even those that aren't you'll find your accounts all deactivated.

And, the latest generation is just completely clueless when it comes to technology in general. "How can I torrent this, I can only use my phone! Isn't there something that works with my smartphone!?!?!" They don't own the hardware, are unwilling to invest in having it but even more than the money hit of that they're just completely disinterested in it.

The pro-copyright jackoffs might not have won yet, but victory's in sight and they're mostly patient (at least when they're not binging on cocaine).

Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by eric__cartman on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @12:23PM (#38546840)
Maybe some people won't. But those that were able to navigate pirate sites in the early 2000s will be easily able to catch up on what somewhat trustworthy sites are used today. I'd wager that it's even a nicer experience now that say in 2010 were internet connections are fast enough to download a movie in a few minutes and all versions of Windows now come with a good built in antivirus program.

The ones that are clueless when it comes to technology will either have to learn about the stuff, or ask a friend to do it. The same thing happened 10 years ago, maybe not with smartphones but copying a movie into a flash drive to watch in one of those fangled new TVs that could play media from an USB mass storage device was certainly a thing.

Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by sonicanatidae on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @12:17PM (#38546735)
Firstly, I generally agree. There is a barrier to piracy. Personally, I don't think it's a lot to overcome, when someone wants to.

There are a number of torrent sites still active and when they go down, others will appear. That's how it's happened historically.

Usenet is still alive and well.

Pirate streaming sites are still out there.

Torrentfreaks is a great source for sites, etc.

There are a lot of ways for media to be pirated. Operating a vpn and torrent, while not part of most people's skillsets, the tech has advanced to the point where it's not difficult.

There was a tech barrier, but advancements in tech, make VPN as easy as, install WindScribe. Register an account. Click a button. VPN connect active. (Note: I'm not advocating WS, they are a random VPN provider I used as an example)

Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by NoMoreNicksLeft on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @12:28PM (#38546914)
If you're not using the haugene/transmission docker image, you're doing the VPN wrong. There was a period of like 3-5 years on reddit where every other post in some of these subs was "my vpn shut down but the torrents kept torrenting and now I'm getting nasty letters from my ISP, why didn't the killswitch work!?!?!"

That's because a killswitch is a dumb idea. It's bad software written badly for a consumer operating system, but the job you were asking it to do was as critical as any control process some esoteric barebones RTOS wouldn't have been perfectly trusted to do.

I don't say this because I'm some genius... I'm saying that I'm the dumbass who learned these things slowly, over years, by fucking it up over and over.

> Pirate streaming sites are still out there.

This may be in the same universe as "piracy", but even so the light from real "piracy" will never reach it, it is that far away.

Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by sonicanatidae on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @04:08PM (#38549479)
I use a seedbox and SFTP transfer to my home, so moot, in my case, at least. The VPN was just an example of the lowered technical requirements to enter the space.

Seedboxes are even easier, albeit less well known.

The point is when there is a will, there will always be a way. As things progress, more and more people will start looking into other options, like piracy and the barrier is lower than it was in the Usenet days, for example.

Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by ls612 on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @12:30PM (#38546936)
Asking for a friend, what is the best way to sail in 2023? I’m fairly tech savvy but I only know of 1337x and TPB. I’m also wary of any private trackers because they block using VPNs.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by scrlk on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @02:58PM (#38548725)
RuTracker is the way to go if you're not keen on playing the private tracker game. Good selection and well seeded, especially for content that doesn't tend to have good retention on other public trackers (e.g. FLACs, high bitrate encodes/remuxes etc.)
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by NoMoreNicksLeft on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @01:24PM (#38547654)
Public trackers are pretty awful at the moment. I like PSA alot, but they're only doing new releases, even that not very comprehensive, and some shows only in 720p (this last one's bizarre imo).

I've slowly over the years lost whatever toehold I had on private trackers, but even when I had that it was just impossible to expand it. Until this last year whenever it was, I was happy enough with Rarbg. The night before it dying, I remember thinking to myself "I am so fucked if they go out". I think I might have been the one that jinxed it.

> I’m also wary of any private trackers because they block using VPNs.

Yeh, that policy's not great. It's only 50/50 that they do that so they can snitch on you if they get raided.

Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by ls612 on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @01:31PM (#38547749)
How good is software like radarr/sonarr/etc? I’m not super familiar with them but they sound kinda like trackers of trackers, and somehow are developed in the open on GitHub so I feel like they should be fairly trustworthy.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by NoMoreNicksLeft on Thursday December 07, 2023 @02:07PM (#38560430)
> How good is software like radarr/sonarr/etc?

It's usable. Was a learning curve, and though it's been awhile it seems like I spent more time getting it configured than it should have taken.

> and somehow are developed in the open on GitHub so I feel like they should be fairly trustworthy.

They're like 5 steps down the "contributory infringement" hierarchy. Though that probably wouldn't help them in sued, because the punishment for facing a lawsuit comes as soon as it is filed, rather than after judgement.

Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by sonicanatidae on Friday December 08, 2023 @11:01AM (#38570524)
Torretfreak is a great site to check on Sailing the Seas in general. They also do annual roundups of public trackers. It's a place to start.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by Grieverheart on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @10:01AM (#38544704)
I don’t completely agree with Rossman here. You are buying the streaming right and not the file. What I agree on though is that they don’t make that clear to their customers.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by izzydata on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @10:07AM (#38544775)
They use terminology such as "purchase" to intentionally lead you to believe that it is a purchase and not renting. Also when they do make it more obvious that it is a license they make you think it is a perpetual license rather than temporary.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by robertlagrant on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @10:47AM (#38545394)
This is similar to buying a DVD. You don't buy the right to the video playing on your TV; only the right to play it on your TV from this exact physical disc. If the disc breaks, you have to buy it again.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by danaris on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @10:56AM (#38545540)
This has, AFAIK, been ruled not to be the case. You have the right to back up DVDs you legally bought for precisely this reason.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by robertlagrant on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @11:02AM (#38545648)
Well, that might depend on where you live. But point being that if your backups also break, you don't have the right to watch the thing any more.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by Kwpolska on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @11:42AM (#38546225)
It is possible for your disk and backups to break, or to be stolen, etc. But it’s just an unfortunate thing that can happen to anything you own. It’s different from the corporation taking away the rights of millions of people just because a licence ran out.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by robertlagrant on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @04:53PM (#38550057)
That is different. I was making the point that with physical media you don't have an unlimited right to watch forever either.
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by voxic11 on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @10:22AM (#38544999)
So am I fine if I stream it from a pirate site rather than downloading it?
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by ncallaway on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @10:34AM (#38545198)
> are buying the streaming right and not the file. What I agree on though is that they don’t make that clear to their customers.

No. It’s not a matter of not being clear enough.

If it’s not clear enough, maybe 10-20% of customers would be confused.

I’d bet anything that if we did a survey 80+ percent of users would think that the platform wouldn’t be able to unilaterally revoke their content.

It goes beyond “not clear” and straight into fraud and false advertising.

Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by BobaFloutist on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @03:09PM (#38548844)
Ok fine, I bought the streaming rights. Why do they get to take them away from me randomly and arbitrarily?
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by sonicanatidae on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @10:17AM (#38544924)
And they wonder why piracy will never go away.. lol
Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by _jal on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @10:38AM (#38545253)
If I do not end up with an offline-playable artifact in a standard format with no DRM, it needs to be priced as one-off consumption, like a movie ticket. Because duration aside, that's what it is.

"Cloud" service economics cannot work for "sales" of content, that only works for subscription models. The vendor has ongoing costs related to a one-time sale; of course they're going to screw you out of it no matter what lies they tell you.

I mostly buy physical media, although BandCamp got a fair amount of my money before it was eviscerated. The first sale doctrine still exists, as much as rentiers hate it.

Re:Playstation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks by skydhash on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @01:48PM (#38547959)
If a ticket can be as low as $5-10, I'd gladly pay $3 for years old movies to watch it once or during a limited period of time (72 hours access?). It's rare for me to rewatch the same movie twice in one month. I have the same expectations for games, If I pay for the digital version, I pay for the experience of playing it once or twice, I'm not expecting a lifetime support.

Where I draw the line is for applications, music and books. Because their uses are perpetual. So no DRMs for anything. I'm not asking you to support new hardware (if I purchase an exe file, a wma album or a mobi book, that's what I'm stuck at), but no shutting down access because you need me to pay for the latest version. I should be able to pop up a VM and consume or use what I purchased.

Saas is another story, but that because it's their servers, not my computer.