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Re:Music-Map – Find Similar Music by tern on Thursday November 30, 2023 @10:11PM (#38482627)
Wow! Music recommenders come up every once in awhile on HN and they're almost alway unusable for underground music. Aside from not recognizing some of the names I tried, this one does quite well. It just needs quick links to listen to examples and it'll already be more useful than Spotify, Apple Music or Last.fm.

Some test cases I used: Logic1000, Tessela, Piezo, TSVI, Two Shell, Caterina Barbieri, Schacke, Amnesia Scanner, Doss, Celyn June [fail], DJ Plead [fail], DVRTN [fail], JakoJako [poor results], LDS [needs disambiguation]

This may already be a better approach, but has anyone built a music recommender that's based on published data (stuff you can find on Discogs) like record labels, aliases, collaborators, remixed-by, etc? As a listener mainly to dance, experimental, and contemporary classical music, I suspect a system based on simple metadata associations would easily beat other approaches.

Re:Music-Map – Find Similar Music by kristopolous on Friday December 01, 2023 @12:13AM (#38483403)
That's exactly what I've been working on. Choose it based on the people someone chose to work with and those networks.

It's very much just a single user system that I haven't generalized because it's a way harder problem.

First, Discogs data quality is actually quite poor once you're trying to build networks and graphs.

Additionally the rules aren't generalizable. Classical music for instance, may have 15 names on the credits, jazz records may have like 4 labels something gets placed on.

So do you follow the network of the guy playing the oboe? Maybe? Sometimes weird connections like the album artist is the strong link, sometimes it's collection albums that one of the songs is placed on. Take say the 1992 release Trancemaster 1: https://www.discogs.com/release/54719-Various-Trancemaster-V... That's a very strong link.

I can do the music I like because I can narrow the ruleset but a general application is basically a winograd schema challenge. This task certainly a neural network problem.

Still working on it. Some day ...

Re:Music-Map – Find Similar Music by tern on Friday December 01, 2023 @01:22AM (#38483776)
Nice! Glad you're doing this work. Sounds like something that would be best integrated into a community with strong contributor culture that could do the tagging, but that's another task entirely.
Re:Music-Map – Find Similar Music by readingnews on Friday December 01, 2023 @07:19AM (#38485909)
That makes sense. I threw in my favorite (used to be underground) artist and saw every side-project they had pop up (and they have around a dozen). OTOH, I just threw in Nujabes and saw a number of people I do not recognize, which I find interesting.

From my tests, the suggestions make sense. It seems to be better than the spotify "I will play things that send you into an echo chamber" algorithm.

Re:Music-Map – Find Similar Music by kristopolous on Friday December 01, 2023 @06:17PM (#38493916)
There's two approaches: musicologist and popularity.

The musicologists do a serious study and have sophisticated tools I can't pretend to understand but their results sound similar: so similar that the serendipity and adventure is sucked out of it.

Also they suffer from the generality problem as well. Qualities that matter in one genre, such as airy female vocals in a minor key, or whatever, are absolutely irrelevant for another genre. Take for instance, Irish folk music where it may be signal and say, Acapella, where it may be noise. Thus considering them is both right and wrong and we're back to our problem.

If you want to categorize the music to "fix" the problem, you run into binning issues. Let's say early 90s hardcore; they can have trance, breakbeat, dnb, house and jazz sections in a single song. Good luck trying to use your genre based contextual mapping on an unsupervised model.

The popularity approach, which ignores the content, is deceptive because it appears in many forms: people who listened to X also listened to Y or Y is trending or any of a number of variations where some magnitude of humans or temporal delta is used as signal.

These all tend towards the not long end of the long tail and so you eventually get the same mediocre experience - you start with your obscure prog rock group from the 1960s and 20 songs later you're at Cream or Hendrix. The "solution" is to tamper the drift via clustering but it will tend the same directions.

In practice though, these approaches service the majority of tastes, that is familiarity, so they're fit for purpose.

Re:Music-Map – Find Similar Music by defrost on Thursday November 30, 2023 @11:04PM (#38482996)
Hilariously King Stingray maps next to Wet Leg ...

I'm guessing that's because they're both recent breakout bands based on an island . . .

KS - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr3iI8gg2fo

WL - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9jeJk2UHQ

Re:Music-Map – Find Similar Music by tjean_z on Thursday November 30, 2023 @10:56PM (#38482950)
I also looked into more obsure bands I'm into. I suspect the relatedness is affected by the band lineups of previous tours
Re:Music-Map – Find Similar Music by an_aparallel on Friday December 01, 2023 @12:44AM (#38483576)
could this be as simple as...a python script which takes an artist - using python discogs_client and just scours every label mate of that artist and feeds itt to you - made more intelligent with acoustic fingerprinting...and a tiny bit of human intervention? :)
Re:Music-Map – Find Similar Music by tern on Friday December 01, 2023 @01:23AM (#38483785)
For certain scenes and genres, I suspect this would already be very useful
Re:Music-Map – Find Similar Music by Semaphor on Friday December 01, 2023 @03:22AM (#38484439)
That would have to be a specialized genre tracker though, most of your suggestions would fall flat for metal, and even label would not always be helpful.

FWIW, the site does not work for my underground bands at all, out of 5 tries 3 didn’t show up at all (Remember Twilight, Der Rest, Jessica's Crime), and 1 (Scythia) has barely any related bands. Only "Die Streuner" got decent results. Some of the bands it’s missing even have wikipedia pages.

Re:Music-Map – Find Similar Music by 2big2fail_47 on Friday December 01, 2023 @07:46AM (#38486068)
haha nice tested with similar artists (eartheater, doon kanda, dean blunt...) :)) works really well. i'm impressed!
Re:Music-Map – Find Similar Music by itsyourbedtime on Friday December 01, 2023 @11:50AM (#38488910)
dean <3