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Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by AndrewKemendo on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @08:37AM (#38459156)
What a joke

I was there when the acquisition happened and it was both “yay” and “what?”

There was so little communication with the overall staff - even at the M9 level - and the management seemed to be doing their own thing.

My prediction: Unity is going to be BedBath&Beyonded

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by georgeecollins on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @09:46AM (#38459949)
If the management continues to under perform, they will be acquired. The FTC investigation showed Zuckerberg was thinking about it. He probably couldn't for Sherman act reasons.

But think about it: they have a good business that has better strategic value for a platform holder. Amazon spent a fortune trying to emulate their business to advantage AWS. That was an incredibly poorly managed endeavor. If they had bought Unity they wouldn't have needed Lumberyard.

I can think of a lot of companies that would want Unity for the right price, or if the US govt would let them buy it. Can't say that about Bed Bath and Beyond!

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by swiftcoder on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @10:36AM (#38460706)
I think everyone has tried to buy Unity at one time or another - I pushed for it at both Amazon and Facebook. Unity was steadfast in their refusal to sell, however. I'm curious to see how much of their business they have to set on fire before they are forced to abandon that position.
Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by TillE on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @12:14PM (#38462076)
I think Microsoft would love to own Unity. Many of their game studios use it, it's C# (with a promised migration from Unity's ancient hacked Mono to modern .NET), they don't have their own public game engine. It would probably be the best outcome for everyone.
Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by bsjaux628 on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @04:22PM (#38465501)
Pretty much non of them use it outside the random A game here and there, they use UE5 or in house. The only ones I remember that used Unity were Ori and Cuphead and those were not first party studios
Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by gavanm on Thursday November 30, 2023 @05:13AM (#38471773)
I could see that potentially being an Anti-Trust issue for them.

Given the controversy over the Activision acquisition, acquiring one of the major engine platforms, having a major game studio, and already owning the XBox platform might make for great end to end strategic alignment / platform control - but I think it would also be a big regulatory/political fight to get done.

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by n6242 on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @12:37PM (#38462387)
> If they had bought Unity they wouldn't have needed Lumberyard.

As far as I know, there have been many attempts to make a non-mobile MMORPG in Unity and they've all ended in failure.

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by nitwit005 on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @08:33PM (#38468057)
I'm a little dubious as to the benefit of buying a game engine company, when you can just build an integration.

Amazon Lumberyard always seemed like a strange idea. Yes, AWS, Twitch, and other integrations might be cool, but those should all have public APIs.

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by PoignardAzur on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @01:01PM (#38462758)
> Unity is going to be BedBath&Beyonded

You heard it here, folks, Unity is the next meme stock.

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by DarkNova6 on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @08:58AM (#38459374)
I don't know about "BedBath&Beyond". Would you mind to elaborate for those of us who don't know? :-)
Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by pmontra on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @09:01AM (#38459402)
Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by ethbr1 on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @09:27AM (#38459692)
The things you miss... I wasn't even aware they'd disappeared. That history is some reading! When your CFO tragically jumps off a balcony, the company might not be doing well.

Why do so many big box stores seem to follow the huge growth -> saturation -> quick implosion and bankruptcy script?

Surely their margins don't materially change? Low per store sales from bad stores? But the first step seems to be closing stores, and that doesn't resolve the issue. It seems weird they'd be able to attract capital for expansion, but then implode so quickly.

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by rurp on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @12:26PM (#38462217)
A frequent cause is private equity. It's common to buy a well know brand, leverage it to the eyeballs in order to extract short term profits and bonuses, and leave the company with no margin to weather a rough patch or evolve when needed. A number of household brand names have been destroyed following this general playbook.
Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by tivert on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @12:29PM (#38462272)
> A frequent cause is private equity. It's common to buy a well know brand, leverage it to the eyeballs in order to extract short term profits and bonuses, and leave the company with no margin to weather a rough patch or evolve when needed. A number of household brand names have been destroyed following this general playbook.

That's why capitalism is so great, right? Creative destruction.

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by thmsths on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @10:07AM (#38460259)
I think your model is missing an intermediate step after financial troubles but before closing stores: aggressive cost cutting that ruin the product/experience. By the time they have gotten around to closing the underperforming stores, every other store is now underperforming.
Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by jerf on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @10:06AM (#38460244)
"Why do so many big box stores seem to follow the huge growth -> saturation -> quick implosion and bankruptcy script?"

Debt financing.

Zigging a bit, my family has been watching The Foods that Built America: https://www.history.com/shows/the-food-that-built-america It seems that about half the episodes tell the same story: Somebody built a new food concept, or polished an existing one in some very useful economic way. They're super ambitious and pretty much as soon as they proved out their base restaurant or sold to a few stores, they immediately opened a couple dozen new restaurants or built a huge new factory. Which they do by loading up on huge, huge amounts of debt. Most of the rest of the human interest portion of the episode talks about the stresses of pulling in enough money to pay the debt. Many of them get acquired or end up getting so much external investment that it amounts to an acquisition.

Of course it's a survivor bias situation; we're not getting told stories about the companies that did the same thing but failed utterly.

While the past 20 years of ~zero interest rates have made this even easier, it isn't necessary. It has quite often been possible to go to some banks with what looks like a good idea and end up in debt up to your eyeballs while expanding your business size possibly by entire factors of magnitude virtually overnight. It ends up very similar to the venture capital pattern we're familiar with in our industry even if isn't exactly the same forces. The result is basically a bimodal distribution; either you manage to pay down the debt to some reasonable level and you end up with a large money-printing business, or you don't, and you have to liquidate everything.

Basically you're seeing the failing side of the bimodal distribution of this pattern. Since a business always works to project strength, you never see them visibly ailing; it's just, there's this big edifice that looks invincible and then virtually overnight it's gone.

A further elaboration relevant to BB&B is that when you're in debt trouble, you become extremely vulnerable financially. You need to pay off that debt, and that opens you up to corporate raiders who supply you with enough to keep you afloat, but then have a lot of options to do things useful in the short term but that kill the company in the long term. With clever structuring, they can keep the profits but dump the debt with the company itself as it goes under. BB&B had some of this going on. However, I consider this a further consequence of the original debt financing, basically one of the concrete ways it can fail.

(Expect to see some more over the next few years. There's a lot of "zombie companies" out there (a term you can google), which is a term for the companies making just enough revenue to pay the interest load on their debts but not pay down principle. In a zero-interest rate world they could sort of chug along indefinitely, but as they have to pay real interest you're going to see these companies really start to struggle.)

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by CWuestefeld on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @12:32PM (#38462317)
This process doesn't have to be the result of any nefarious intent.

AIUI, it's common when taking on debt for the creditors to try to protect their investment by including specific performance guarantees. There may be numbers that the company has to maintain around revenue, inventory turnover, etc. - or the creditors will have the right to call the debt.

The thing is, the need for the creditors to limit their risk isn't necessarily aligned with the overall best interest of the company. Conforming to these debt covenants can force the borrower to act for short-term numbers at the expense of long-term performance, a sort of Goodhart's Law effect caused by the metrics imposed in the debt covenants.

I've seen my employer become the beneficiary of this through a couple of periods of tough markets. Privately held with zero debt, our CEO was able to solidify our market position at the same time our competitors were doing obviously dumb things, the result of which is that we came out of those difficult times very much stronger in the industry.

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by ethbr1 on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @12:33PM (#38462323)
Reasonable take.

I'd be curious about typical financing terms in retail for physical expansion.

But time at a few solid, well-run companies made me appreciate how important a powerful but ego-less CFO is to success. Someone in the room to say "Doing that will cost a lot in the future. What about this alternative?"

I'd also be curious about the frequency of successful debt management schemes... it seems something of a prisoner's dilemma if you're a large shareholder in a heavily-indebted business.

Either you allow the company to plow revenue into paying down debt (maybe for years), or you preempt your fellow investors and launch a raid to extract value for yourself before it implodes.

It seems like making companies more resistant against raid-and-dump-debt would be good for all involved (companies, their creditors, the entire pool of equity holders... basically everyone except raiders).

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by jjoonathan on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @10:23AM (#38460497)
> With clever structuring, they can keep the profits but dump the debt

I've always wondered the degree to which these buyouts are legitimate last-ditch turnaround efforts vs front-running bankruptcy proceedings.

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by marcosdumay on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @11:15AM (#38461284)
> Basically you're seeing the failing side of the bimodal distribution of this pattern.

Hum, kinda, but infinite-growth management doesn't get a bimodal distribution. They get a corporate version of the Peter principle, where the loans increase in value until the company can't grow enough to pay them.

You don't even get a distribution in final outcomes, just in lifetime. And since the growth is exponential, there isn't a lot of variance on it either.

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by MarkSweep on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @11:04AM (#38461130)
According to the Wikipedia article, much of the debt BB&B acquired was to buy back stock.
Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by bsder on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:42PM (#38467030)
> Why do so many big box stores seem to follow the huge growth -> saturation -> quick implosion and bankruptcy script?

Recently--mostly private equity.

Any company with >$50 million in real cashflow is a target for private equity to come in, load it up with debt and extract the cash.

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by javajosh on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @09:24AM (#38459654)
what a sad story. It's an interesting tale oddly in favor of letting nepotism happen. The story definitely reads like some activist investors righteously decapitated the company for nepotism, but then were left with a dead body.
Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by MakeThemMoney on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @11:52AM (#38461829)
Is it really in favour of nepotism? I see nepotism in this case as incidental. They could have restructured the company for the lulz, and still get the same result.
Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by AndrewKemendo on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @09:17AM (#38459572)
Channeling dang for a moment: Previously discussed:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37652479

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by wredue on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @09:07AM (#38459470)
Cheap massively overpriced shit products, with horrendous stock control managers and stock buyers with some… weird taste.

There you go. Bed Bath and Beyond.

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by coffeebeqn on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @09:22AM (#38459631)
And their management squeezed the company for personal profit until it went bankrupt
Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by Keyframe on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @11:29AM (#38461501)
Series of events and PR releases sounds like ultimately they have paid for non-exclusive tools/IP source locense for 1.6b. WetaFX still has rights to continue tools and IP and judging by grapevine and PR they'll also hire a good bunch of devs back. Ridiculous

Biggest hardware tech in film business ARRI isn't worth third of that. That's how small all of that behind the scenes industry is.

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by dboreham on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @10:07AM (#38460247)
> “yay” and “what?”

In my youth we called these "airport lounge deals", imagining that the deal had resulted from the two CEOs happening to sit next to each other at the bar in the first class lounge at JFK during a snow storm. They get drunk and decide to form a strategic partnership or merger. Everyone else is like "Huh?".

Re:Unity Software with a 'company reset' walks away from fil... by DonHopkins on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @09:24AM (#38459657)
Bedded, Bathed, & Beyonded