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Re:The Dead Children We Must See by hackeraccount on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @05:30PM (#38452355)
True enough but the poison is in the dose. Too much and you're left with Nihilism.

The trouble revolves around how much judgement is required on any given subject. On the right subject people can come perilously close to laying out facts devoid of interpretation; on the wrong subject either no one can or no one believes anyone can - which is pretty much the same thing.

Re:The Dead Children We Must See by injeolmi_love on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @06:41PM (#38453257)
And what exactly is wrong with a nihilism? If we don’t really know what’s going on, maybe we should accept that truth and move on with living better lives less swayed by political propaganda. Given how many relationships have been ruined because both sides were certain of their political facts, a nihilism seems simply better.
Re:The Dead Children We Must See by akprasad on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @07:13PM (#38453576)
Broadly, nihilism rejects purpose and meaning. I don't see how one can justify we "move on with living better lives" within such a worldview (i.e. why act that way when nothing matters?).
Re:The Dead Children We Must See by injeolmi_love on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @08:26PM (#38454234)
There’s many forms of nihilism, and purpose nihilism wasn’t the subject of my comment.

A Nihilist is more stable than you think. A tree doesn’t need purpose to grow, and neither does a human. Instead they follow a process that’s expressed by the body in response to the environment. For humans we not only have physical sensation but also memories, ideas, and thoughts. Without a worldview these all still happen, and your body will still react to your thoughts and sensations without a purpose. A healthy Nihilist would not feel sad about having no meaning, since they never had one anyway; on reflection, they might feel happy that there’s no obligation to respond other than how their situation moves them to. A Nihilist can do what is morally right without the restrictions of a purpose that proscribes them to do otherwise.

Re:The Dead Children We Must See by kuchenbecker on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @11:07PM (#38455448)
I'm curious how you reconcile the explicit rejection of morality in Nihilism with your personal morality. I feel these are in conflict.

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Longer take:

Defining what is morally right requires value judgement, and Nihilism rejects morality. What Is (facts) can't tell us what we ought to do. [1]

To build a moral framework on what one ought to do, you must necessarily ascribe meaning and value judgement otherwise it can't claim to be moral and it would merely be actions you perform devoid of meaning.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem

Re:The Dead Children We Must See by injeolmi_love on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @12:59AM (#38456059)
There isn’t a fundamental difference between ought/is. Both moral judgements and facts are based on reasoned beliefs.

Why do you think meaning is required for making a value judgement? I can very easily claim that killing humans is wrong without relying on any metaphysics, just like I can claim the sky is blue. Both are beliefs based on reasons; meaning can be discarded.

Re:The Dead Children We Must See by kuchenbecker on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @10:21AM (#38460475)
That meaning can be discarded doesn't imply it ought to be discarded.

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Morals/meaning have a shaky absolute foundation, in that deep down nothing probably matters and the universe is indifferent.

However I'm a person, born in modern society; everything has relative meaning even if the epistemological foundations are shaky.

I see Nihilism similar the mathematicians trying to prove foundational math [1], and similarly doubting it's actually fundamental.

Yet here we are using math to amazing things! Math doesn't need to be true for it to be useful. I find useful things valuable.

Meaning, in particular shared meaning, is similarly valuable and worth pursuing even if they can't be proven.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory

Re:The Dead Children We Must See by tptacek on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @07:31PM (#38453754)
What the last two comments are really saying is that "nihilism" isn't the right word for the state you enter when you give up on developing an accurate picture of the world from luridly presented tragedies in news stories.
Re:The Dead Children We Must See by matt_j on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @08:54PM (#38454447)
The right word would be "apathy".
Re:The Dead Children We Must See by tptacek on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @09:00PM (#38454497)
No, that's not at all right.
Re:The Dead Children We Must See by scotty79 on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:10AM (#38458006)
Nothing objectively matters. You are free to invent things and ascribe them meaning. Meaninglessness is a discovery, meaning is a creation.
Re:The Dead Children We Must See by akoboldfrying on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:26AM (#38458110)
>why act that way when nothing matters?

I agree but I think the breakdown is even stronger than that: Nihilism gives you no way to decide what is "better" in the first place.

Re:The Dead Children We Must See by kuchenbecker on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @09:21PM (#38454656)
My take on Nihilism:

If you've gotten to Nihilism, you have a blank slate to build what you Do believe.

Ascribing meaning to things has value. For example, human life in Nihilism is unimportant, which may or may not be true, but we all benefit from the shared belief in the value of life even if it's technically wrong.

So don't stop at Nihilism as the conclusion but rather use it as a canvas and build up what's meaningful to you. With any luck, others will find the same things as you meaningful.

Re:The Dead Children We Must See by collingreen on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @10:09PM (#38454981)
This is a really positive take and I appreciate you writing it.
Re:The Dead Children We Must See by kuchenbecker on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @11:25PM (#38455560)
You're welcome!

It was my way out of Nihilism. The pursuit of being good is more important and valuable than us all agreeing on what is good (or even that good exists at all). And given that goal, all you can do is try your best.

Re:The Dead Children We Must See by scotty79 on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @06:08AM (#38457994)
The best direction to move from nihilism is absurdism. You can still be correct but now you can enjoy it.
Re:The Dead Children We Must See by a-french-anon on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @04:49AM (#38457462)
You're left with wisdom, not nihilism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_that_I_know_nothing