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Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:02PM (#38448751)
passive aggressiveness is used by the powerless and the cowards.

if you weren't powerless you wouldn't need to be passive aggressive and if you weren't a coward you'd take the risk associated with being truthful.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by naremu on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:09PM (#38448877)
Have you never been in a real workplace?

Passive aggressiveness is generally the tool of those in power to deflect any potential criticisms/issue taking, and the lower rung and more powerless the worker, the less their overt aggression matters, and is much more tolerated by their same level colleagues/environment.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by hinkley on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:28PM (#38449252)
I came to say that PA is a tool (weapon, really) of covert narcissists, so your response is as good a place as any to chime in.

Since bosses are disproportionately narcissistic, there’s going to be some correlation there.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by passion__desire on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:05PM (#38448794)
There are multiple kinds of powers. Power of money e.g. JK Rowling. Or power of social wind blowing your way as some groups tried to silence her.
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by simmer on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:09PM (#38448885)
Criticism =/= silencing.
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by Wistar on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:17PM (#38449033)
A recent Ken White (Popehat) essay:

“My Free Speech Means You Have To Shut Up”

https://popehat.substack.com/p/my-free-speech-means-you-have...

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by oatmeal1 on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:36PM (#38449395)
The comment you're replying to is accurate. The intent is to silence her.
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by whythre on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:15PM (#38449012)
Death threats = silencing.
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by amanaplanacanal on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:25PM (#38449195)
Death threats should be investigated and prosecuted. People are still allowed to criticize illiberal opinions.
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by passion__desire on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @10:01AM (#38460163)
The problem isn't opinions but inconsistent ones which the Left is imposing on others. Here's Richard Dawkins tearing apart the Left's logic. A white woman identifying as black women is bad while a man identifying as a woman is ok.
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by mbb70 on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:06PM (#38448812)
I'm sorry you feel that way
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by tinktank on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:07PM (#38448854)
I see what you did there. If that's what makes you happy...
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by hinkley on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:31PM (#38449305)
Don’t mind me, I’ll just sit over here making sad noises while you do whatever it is you want to do. It’s your life and who am I to tell you how to live it? I only gave birth to you (27 hours!) and raised you.
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by ganzuul on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:16PM (#38449019)
You really went there.
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by achow on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:11PM (#38448926)
Down voting of this comment is aggressive or passive aggressive? The words 'coward', 'powerless' too aggressive? That's the reason this comment is getting passive-aggressively downvoted?
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by ganzuul on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:19PM (#38449080)
Looks like venting. Some people are however able to word their venting so that they get upvoted for the same.
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by the_af on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:12PM (#38448950)
> passive aggressiveness is used by the powerless and the cowards.

Those are potential users of passive-aggressiveness, but if you meant an implied "it's ONLY used by...", then you're wrong. The article itself narrates an example where it's used in a context where the person is neither powerless nor a coward.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @02:27PM (#38450073)
What you're trying to say is that it's also used for deflection, which is true, but that falls under cowardice.

If you were powerful or not a coward you wouldn't need to deflect for dissemble.

When people talk about FU money, this is what they're talking about.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by the_af on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @02:38PM (#38450185)
I don't think it falls under cowardice, certainly not consciously so.

I don't think human behavior can always be classified as either "brave" or "cowardly". (I also disagree that deflection is always a form of cowardice -- not wanting to deal with something directly is sometimes cowardice, sometimes laziness, sometimes tiredness, and sometimes other things).

It seems people develop certain behaviors, sometimes defensive, sometimes aggressive, sometimes something other, as they grow up, and they get deployed not always consciously. It took the Aaron of this story at least 1+ therapy sessions to partially unpack what he was doing, and possibly why.

It doesn't reek of cowardice to me. He was in a position of power (the money-maker) but wasn't afraid of his partner; rather he felt feelings of irritation which were masked with guilt.

"Cowardice" is not how I would describe it.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @03:14PM (#38450623)
Many people are not good with confrontation, passive aggressiveness is generally how you show aggression without confrontation.

There can be a myriad of reasons for this, but it's still cowardice.

I've read many accounts of people who have found their career's doing better once they have enough money in the bank to feel secure because they're more comfortable taking risks and being outspoken at work.

Avoiding risk is what passive aggressiveness is about, hence the cowardice.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by the_af on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @04:07PM (#38451328)
I understand you're set in your interpretation, but this doesn't make it true.

The article describes something different, and people are not divided in "brave" or "cowards".

I also provided other examples of confrontation avoidance that are not motivated by cowardice, e.g. laziness. You can conflate everything with "cowardice", but this makes for a very boring world.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @06:50PM (#38453360)
What you're saying here is that out of laziness someone engaged in aggression rather than staying silent.

That's not how aggression works. That doesn't mean people won't rationalize, but it certainly doesn't change the cowardice.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by the_af on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @08:09PM (#38454089)
Again, you're making assertions with little to back them up except that you believe in them.

Human behavior doesn't always get to be divided between "bravery" and "cowardice". There's a full range of behaviors you're failing to acknowledge.

The behavior this article and the rest of us are describing is a little more complex.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @01:07AM (#38456104)
The assertion I'm making is that words have meanings.

Your argument boils down to "some people are missing limbs therefore they must not be human since the claim is that humans have 2 arms and 2 legs".

> Human behavior doesn't always get to be divided between "bravery" and "cowardice".

Thankfully we're specifically talking about passive aggressiveness rather than all human behavior.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by the_af on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @08:31AM (#38459097)
> The assertion I'm making is that words have meanings.

No, you are assigning specific meanings to words, and I'm disagreeing with them.

"That's not how aggression works" is an assertion you made without anything to back it up. It's just your opinion, and not very well justified either. (You also failed to explain how, in your opinion, aggression does work!).

The article itself doesn't show what you claim are the only possibilities for passive aggression.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @09:31AM (#38459733)
These are not my definitions.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aggression

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/passive-aggressiv...

---

Where you got stuck was in describing passive aggressive behavior as being motivated by laziness. It's a rationalization, a person could choose not to engage at all and that might be laziness, but to engage using passive aggressive behavior is to choose to be aggressive without honesty.

People do so in environments where they are powerless or cowardly.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by the_af on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @11:15AM (#38461274)
> These are not my definitions.

Great! In what way do you think those dictionary definitions support your point of view?

> Where you got stuck was in describing passive aggressive behavior as being motivated by laziness

No, that was merely an example. I'm not stuck, though I think you are when you claim that only by powerlessness or cowardice can passive-aggressivity be motivated. I didn't claim laziness was the only motivation!

> It's a rationalization

This explains nothing.

> People do so in environments where they are powerless or cowardly.

That's your opinion, which you've so far failed to support. Actually, what you failed to support is that those are the ONLY environments in which people behave in passive-aggressive ways; I don't disagree they are possible motivations (before, I gave you an "out" which you didn't take, so now you're locked in a hard to justify position of "it's the ONLY motivation" -- in a sense you're truly "stuck"!).

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @03:12PM (#38464627)
"I was motivated to exercise out of laziness".

"I was motivated to be aggressive out of laziness".

People will assume you're trying to make a joke, with good reason. Anyone seriously trying to claim they chose to be aggressive rather than silent out of laziness is involved in what's known as a post-hoc rationalization.

This stance only appears difficult to justify to you because in your head apparently words can have any meaning you want.

To draw an analogy. If I come across a child with down syndrome who vehemently argues that 1+1=3, that doesn't make it so (inb4 redefining binary operators in math). And at some point I can either care enough to try and educate this child or I can let them be with the understanding that they're going to have a harder time in life.

And so it is that I leave you.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by the_af on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @05:40PM (#38466306)
> Anyone seriously trying to claim they chose to be aggressive rather than silent out of laziness is involved in what's known as a post-hoc rationalization.

Thankfully that wasn't my claim, so good luck with your strawman!

You've failed to make your point. Your down's syndrome paragraph... I cannot even begin to decide whether it's offensive, or stupid, or both.

You've failed to say anything besides doubling down on your initial unsupported assertion, even after I graciously provided you with an "out".

And so I too must bid you adieu.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by disambiguation on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @04:48PM (#38451767)
says the anonymous poster.
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by ganzuul on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:15PM (#38449005)
Being powerless and being a coward are very different outsets. It's not clear that you are taking that into account, and not inventing a new and rhetorically stillborn category.
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @03:15PM (#38450643)
powerless and cowardly people both eat, yet somehow we're still able to consider them separate outsets.

And since I have no doubt this isn't going to be understood, passive aggressiveness can be employed by different categories of people.

Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by circlefavshape on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:08PM (#38448861)
Meh. When I'm passive aggressive it's when I'm trying to surpress my annoyance about something, but it sneaks out anyway.
Re:Sorry you feel that way: why passive aggression took over... by darkerside on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @01:29PM (#38449265)
Perhaps being passive aggressive is a choice, not just something people need to do. I could use the latent, or manifest, threat of violence to get my way in relationships. I choose not to, because I like those relationships and want them to continue. Is that passive aggressive?

While interesting, I think the essay vastly oversimplifies in its effort to make a point.