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Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by Manuel_D on Thursday November 23, 2023 @01:24PM (#38395815)
Just don't use the third party app store if you're worried about scams. Requiring that apple permit 3rd party app stores does not force users to use said 3rd part stores.
Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by quitit on Thursday November 23, 2023 @01:52PM (#38396118)
This sounds like a fair point until remembering that things like Boss-ware exist.

An insurer/ health insurer, employer, government, etc will require it, and just like that the "just don't use them" crowd will hold up their hands and pretend that no one could have imagined this disaster.

If the problem is truly Apple exhibiting favouritism or limiting competition through their app approval process: then the EU should have just forced them to spin it out into an independent entity for the EU stores, or even take control of it themselves - but they didn't and 2024/25 is going to be a shitshow for it.

Legislating for side loading and multiple app stores is the least imaginative and most obviously flawed approach to the competition problem and the sole reason why Android's share of malware is staggering in comparison to iOS.

Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by waprin on Thursday November 23, 2023 @02:14PM (#38396334)
If you’re required to install software on your phone for work then your employer should be legally required to pay for your phone. And then if you want your own phone you pay for it yourself. And if your employers IT team lets corporate devices get malware that’s on them. This is a weird edge case to get hung up on.

You’re making a very simple issue way more complicated than it needs to be. Having Apple spin out EU specific new corporate entities with unclear relationships to its parent company sounds extremely complex.

Requiring Apple to allow people to install apps they want on their own device is pretty simple and should be a fundamental expectation of a free society.

If normal user wants the walled garden Apple experience, that’s fine. Make it unintuitive to install third party apps. Require checking a big red disclaimer that you might brick your phone. But just have some sort of path where if party A made an app and party B wants it on the device they paid a lot of money for, they can do that without some unqualified drone in Cupertino blocking it .

Countless examples of the App Store review being broken , and just on principle, Apple has what’s effectively a monopoly on mobile phones in that you can’t make a mobile app and ignore iPhone and for them to unilaterally decide all software that’s allowed is way too much power.

Somehow Microsoft went to the Supreme Court for putting IE on the desktop but Apple is off the hook for a complete lockdown. At least you could download Netscape on Windows 95! What Apple is doing is like if AOL and AOL keywords became the only entry point to the web. Then you go on Hacker News and people say that’s s good thing because AOL only allows quality websites and otherwise people make malware and scam websites. It doesn’t matter, it’s too much power for one company and mobile phones are more critical to society in 2023 than the web was in the 90s. Mobile phones are not appliances.

It’s still unfathomable to me this is even a conversation on this website. Apples complete lockdown of the most important computing devices is plainly bad for consumers and society.

Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by quitit on Thursday November 23, 2023 @02:19PM (#38396376)
I'm making a pretty valid point(note Android's outsized malware share) and we'll get to see it play out next year in the EU.

It's interesting to me that your core argument is about making a choice whether or not to embrace side-loading and 3rd party app stores. However aren't users making this choice when they buy the phone to begin with. Side loading and 3rd party app stores aren't a secret, many Android manufacturers use this as a selling point and include their own stores baked-in.

I'm somehow to believe that users are simultaneously clever and dumb - and I'm not buying it.

Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by Guvante on Thursday November 23, 2023 @05:09PM (#38398151)
I like how you call users dumb for choosing Apple and clever for wanting to sideload.

Or how else do you claim there is two sides here?

Pretending that Apple is protecting consumers is silly, they have repeatedly said internally the lock is for revenue alone. No claim of security protection has lasted past "wouldn't sideloaded apps be sandboxed the same as App Store apps and thus have the same security overall"? (Apple failed to counter that point)

Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by quitit on Thursday November 23, 2023 @07:20PM (#38399369)
>I like how you call users dumb for choosing Apple and clever for wanting to sideload.

That's clearly not what is written, don't invent a false narrative with your lack of comprehension skills.

Also going to need a citation for this beauty:

>"they [apple] have repeatedly said internally the lock is for revenue alone"

But judging from your reading skills earlier, I don't have confidence in it being forthcoming.

Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by Guvante on Saturday November 25, 2023 @01:42AM (#38411735)
Poking fun at the bad phrase. There was no dumb in that choice.

The reality is the author dismissed Apple supporting side loading as fundamentally impossible in a thread talking about how Apple should offer more choices.

Calling users dumb for wanting side loading on Apple is ridiculous on its face. Users didn't choose Apple to side load they might have sacrificed side loading to get Apple but calling them dumb for making a choice is ridiculous.

Apple makes $86 billion from the App Store a year. That is a quarter of their revenue from iPhone sales. No shot a 25% increase in revenue with phenomenally higher margins isn't of extreme importance to Apple.

Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by seec on Saturday November 25, 2023 @04:20AM (#38412352)
This guy is a dangerous zealot. He attacked your "reading comprehension" because he doesn't have any real argument that is not about protecting their trillion dollars master no matter what. It's a bit unreal seeing people like him exist everywhere.
Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by judge2020 on Thursday November 23, 2023 @07:46PM (#38399552)
It sounds like the poster means that people who buy one or the other are choosing between either "(nearly) absolute" security or freedom in being able to install software without the manufacturer's consent.
Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by Guvante on Monday November 27, 2023 @04:28PM (#38438610)
Certainly but there is no dumb option it is a trade off.

They got in their head that users were stupid for choosing Apple when they wanted side loading but that isn't stupid in the context of "should Apple allow sideloading".

Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by judge2020 on Thursday November 23, 2023 @07:51PM (#38399581)
> If you’re required to install software on your phone for work then your employer should be legally required to pay for your phone. And then if you want your own phone you pay for it yourself. And if your employers IT team lets corporate devices get malware that’s on them. This is a weird edge case to get hung up on.

I'll support any sideloading regulation that includes all of these protections. As it stands this is only a law in some countries/regions and certainly not something everyone will be protected by if they happen to be outside of EU (and maybe US) jurisdiction.

Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by Manuel_D on Thursday November 23, 2023 @02:19PM (#38396382)
If your company mandates installation of malware, then that's not something an app store can fix. If your company mandates the installation of malware and it's not available on the Apple AppStore, do you think they'd just say, "well okie dokie I guess the policy doesn't apply to you"? No, they'd require you carry a compliant device.

If my company is mandating the installation of software on my devices, I'll request a corporate device and assume the company has root access on said device.

Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by ThatPlayer on Thursday November 23, 2023 @02:40PM (#38396645)
It is also already possible through MDM to force install of apps separate from the app store.

Employer installed apps is a use case Apple officially support.

Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by ghostpepper on Thursday November 23, 2023 @02:41PM (#38396649)
People who have plenty of options for switching jobs are generally not the first target for oppressive technology
Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by Manuel_D on Thursday November 23, 2023 @03:31PM (#38397182)
I'm not sure how this is relevant to my point: "sorry your app isn't on the Apple app store" probably isn't enough to stop an oppressive employer from forcing employees to install spyware.
Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by Grayskull on Thursday November 23, 2023 @02:22PM (#38396430)
> An insurer/ health insurer, employer, government, etc will require it, and just like that the "just don't use them" crowd will hold up their hands and pretend that no one could have imagined this disaster.

On Android where alternate storefronts are a possibility, I have yet to be made aware of a single instance of this happening. Not even Epic in their crusade against established mobile stores made its' own platform.

Re:Developer account removed by Apple – $108,878 frozen by quitit on Thursday November 23, 2023 @02:36PM (#38396582)
That's a naive point to take for two reasons:

1. You're not looking very hard, surveillance ware exists for employment, examinations and so on. It's not available on iOS, but is available on Android via side loading. Both Facebook and Google used iOS certificates to side load tracking apps onto iOS for regular consumers. Even rental cars brands have utilised surveillance software to track speed and apply fines. The more you dig here the more you find: it's not some outlandish concept.

2. The inability to run such types of software on iOS prevents these approaches from moving forward across the industry. Much the same way that QR codes weren't widely utilised until both Android and iOS supported it.