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Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by lurker919 on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @06:21PM (#38372031)
Just for nostalgia, I'd like to shake the hands of the programmer/team who added the code allowing cheatcodes.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by keyle on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @06:34PM (#38372181)
I think it was pretty standard, even used for testing.

God mode for example, that allows to fly through the map, is the OG of fast travel.

Nowadays computers are so powerful you can have full blown editor doing essentially all the cheat codes, but back in the day, you'd want to be testing the construction of X, something you don't have money for, so you'd press a few keys to change hex values and you'd have (maxvalue - current cash) instantly, so you could test more effectively.

Cheat codes would be hidden enough that regular players wouldn't find them but not impossible that players could use them.

I think the logic is, you've paid for the game, you should be able to access all the content.

Nowadays, since games are such big business, it's all too serious.

Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by eru on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @08:27PM (#38373375)
> Nowadays, since games are such big business, it's all too serious.

Interesting enough, you can often find the equivalent of cheat codes in the accessibility settings. Celeste is a good example.

Another reason for cheat codes: you can give them to reviewers, so they can look at all the content, without having to beat the game the normal, slow way.

Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by autoexec on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @09:57PM (#38374160)
Accessibility options can help a bit, but aren't implemented widely and aren't anywhere near as powerful as cheat codes and console commands. Being able to move between stages, spawn or remove objects and characters, or even just get your character unstuck can let you work around what would otherwise be game breaking bugs and provide many hours of entertainment.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by 13of40 on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @06:58PM (#38372440)
My own experience testing video games back in the mists of time was you get assigned Level Nine, for example, and the entire game is a crashy stuck-in-the-floor mess where all of the low hanging fruit has already been reported. Without a cheat to get you to Level Nine you'll never even be able to do your "commute" there, much less do your job.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by cassianoleal on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @07:08PM (#38372539)
I remember back in the day a memory editor for DOS.

It was a TSR (terminate and stay resident, esentially a background process) that you'd load before firing up the game.

Once in the game, at any time you could press a hot key (F12, I think) and it would freeze the game and open a TUI with a hex editor where you could search for values (money, number of lives, whatever else you could think of), change them and go back to the game.

Fun days!

Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by dotnet00 on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @07:46PM (#38372955)
Us slightly younger folk got to do similar stuff with cheat engines on consoles like the PSP. You'd configure a 'plugin' to be loaded by the CFW with the game, press some key combo to freeze the game and go fishing for cheats in memory (or use previously saved ones).

That kind of fiddling was such a big part of my developing an interest in computers and building a solid understanding of how all the magic works internally, it's a bit of a shame that kids nowadays can't really jump into fiddling around like that since the devices they'd play games on are much better locked down (or on PC, require you to already know what you're doing to be able to snoop around in another program's memory).

Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by hammock on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @08:55PM (#38373622)
The memory cheats is how Game Genie worked!
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by hobs on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @10:01PM (#38374204)
On the playstation you would load the GG as a disc and then pop it open and load another disc, it felt like absolute hacker magic.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by hammock on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @10:08PM (#38374245)
That’s what game genie was for cartridges too. You plug the game into the game genie into the console
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by BearOso on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @09:10PM (#38388334)
All the Game Genies sat between the cartridge and console and intercepted and replaced accesses to specific ROM addresses. It didn't have the ability to access memory. Other devices like the Pro-Action Replay could modify memory and acted more like a TSR.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by CoastalCoder on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @08:08PM (#38373213)
How would you figure out which memory location stored a given thing, e.g. # of lives?
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by mewpmewp2 on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @08:19PM (#38373296)
I remember there were tools where you filtered all the matching values, then went back to game and played a little, came back filtered again, until one value stood out.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by coldpie on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @09:07PM (#38373706)
Indeed. I wrote an article a while back showing this in action with a Gamecube game running in an emulator: https://www.smokingonabike.com/2021/01/17/hacking-super-monk...
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by im3w1l on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @09:12PM (#38373745)
I remember doing this with the built-in tool of some emulator. They would let you filter by exact match and you could filter it down again after changing the value (losing a life).

But for stuff where exact matching wasn't practical like say a more or less continous health-bar, you could instead filter by searching for values that decreased / increased / didn't change.

Of course you would also have to guess at the data type but there weren't that many likely choices.

Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by cassianoleal on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @04:19AM (#38376916)
This is it. You'd mark the memory locations, go back to the game, repeat the search and filter down.

Either that, or you'd just go about trying one by one until you found it, then tried to figure out a pattern of what was around it and make notes on a paper for next time.

Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by wwalexander on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @08:14PM (#38373250)
AFAIK Cheat Engine[1] is the standard approach. There are some cool tutorial videos on YouTube.

[1] https://www.cheatengine.org/

Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by gopher_space on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @02:17AM (#38375975)
Hex editor with Ultima III I think we’d search for our character name and then start twiddling values until mom called us for dinner.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by keyle on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @07:28PM (#38372760)
I forgot about that one! That was super nerdy and neat. Thanks!
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by jlarocco on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @11:30PM (#38374728)
That technique worked in Windows 95, too. I used to "cheat" on Diablo 1 using WinHex to max out my gold and modify some item stats.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by wkat4242 on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @07:34PM (#38372830)
Also, games were often not really multiplayer in those days so there was no impact on other players.

These days multiplayer is always roped into it like with GTA V just so they can milk those sweet microtransactions.

Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by Foomf on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @07:15PM (#38372632)
I heard that some games added cheat codes so that they could sell those guide books with all sorts of cheat codes in them. I remember seeing them at my scholastic book fair in elementary school.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by m463 on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @08:31PM (#38373409)
Can't tell you how many games I've played like this:

- shoot. loot.

- fast travel, dump loot, fast travel return.

- shoot. loot.

...

Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @08:56PM (#38373637)
In no particular order: Borderlands; Destiny; Tom Clancy’s(R) The Division; Fallout 3, New Vegas, 4; The Outer Worlds; Skyrim if you’re inclusive with the definition of shooting; Pokemon Snap 2 if you’re extra inclusive with the definition of looting.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by sproingie on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @10:27PM (#38374397)
Why would you even dump your loot in Borderlands? Money is absolutely meaningless in that game. You look at the comparison box to see if there are more green arrows and if not you leave it.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @10:37PM (#38374460)
That’s rational and a fair critique. On the other hand, I can make the money number bigger. I’ll let you guess which wins out in my case.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by wruza on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @04:02AM (#38376819)
You rarely visited shops then. Countless times I watched a top tier gun timing out in 3 minutes and I’m short on money.

Also, BL guns have lots of hidden parameters which may or may not correspond to (or be enhanced by) your build. Playing by green arrows alone is pretty… casual.

Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by mrguyorama on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @02:08PM (#38383647)
Well you see I grew up in a poor household so now I have scarcity mindset/hoarding mindset and I NEED to keep everything what if it's useful in the future or I can sell it for two bucks or or or or....

I like borderlands but good god is it a slog for me to play because I have to pick up ALL the loot and kill ALL the things and do ALL the side quests so now I'm 40 hours in on my first play through and haven't even beaten the game yet while all the normal people are talking about the new mechanics in super ultra extra hardcore vault hunter mode newgame++++

I downloaded a mod for Fallout 4 to make most things weightless so I could actually play the game instead of picking up every single 10mm round when I don't even use pistols.

Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @02:43PM (#38384115)
I definitely hear you. I have a Skyrim save that still has ~18k "weight units" of loot that I need to sell. I recently started sizing it down from ~42k units. I used to just dump it all in a chest near the vendor I use when I need to clear space in the player inventory but then I installed a mod that lets me open an inventory with a spell. I could leave that 5 weight, 1 gold-value item behind but that's literally leaving money on the table.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by scrame on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @09:51PM (#38374092)
idkfa
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by Philpax on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @07:07PM (#38372536)
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by Noumenon72 on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @08:38PM (#38373454)
They should have left this one in:

> The collision in a game is usually different from the visual polygons. This is because collision detection is relatively slow. A building with 10,000 visual polygons may have only 1,000 collision polygons. As a consequence, the map may have holes that you cannot see. This is what's going on when you fall through the map.

> This makes it very hard for the testers to test the collision on the map. During gta4, the testers found it particularly hard as characters could fall through the map depending on their animations and there was no way they could touch every bit on the map.

> This is why they asked for a rag doll gun. Alexander Roger created a special gun that instead of bullets would fire rag doll characters. The testers could go round the map and fire rag dolls at every building and hill side. --https://insiderockstarnorth.blogspot.com/2023/11/bugs-bugs-b...

Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by CableNinja on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @11:46PM (#38374829)
Id love to see that on someones resume.. "directed to fire bodies at various hillsides to detect collision holes"
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by parasti on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @10:09AM (#38380266)
Seems like drawing the collision geometry would have been more efficient. Not as fun, though.
Re:Why does the moon change size when you snipe it in GTA? by AdmiralAsshat on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @09:23AM (#38379560)
I don't think it was until I started learning programming in school and fully understood what "debugging" meant that it started to make sense what the purpose was of the "debug mode" that video game strategy guides would show me how to unlock. I thought it was there for the players to find and entertain themselves, like cheat codes.

Only later did I realize that stuff like model viewer, events viewer, stage select, etc. was all stuff developed for/by the QA team.