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Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by cedilla on Sunday November 19, 2023 @01:58PM (#38336381)
Euronet ATMs being a scam is a very americentric view. The world is not /primarily/ designed to rip off tourist.

Very evident with this map that just appears to be a differently labeled population heat map.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by peterfa on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:44PM (#38337005)
I made that map, and I'm not American. You can google "population density map Mallorca" and compare. I had the same assumption as you, so I googled it before publishing.
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by crazygringo on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:03PM (#38336448)
> The world is not /primarily/ designed to rip off tourist.

In my experiences with traveling to a great number of countries and cities... yes, it pretty much is.

Taking any kind of "easiest path" tourism is basically full of rip-offs in every hotel, restaurant, and tour, no matter where you are.

It takes effort to plan a genuinely enjoyable trip full of rich experiences that isn't ripping you off.

Also, it doesn't seem to be a population map at all -- that distribution is quite different:

https://www.mdpi.com/land/land-02-00252/article_deploy/html/...

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by fl7305 on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:09PM (#38336529)
If you do happen to end up in a tourist trap location and are looking for a good lunch restaurant, pick one where the local construction workers and police go to eat.
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by Leherenn on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:49PM (#38337769)
Does it actually work? My experience in Europe (well a few places at least) is that most blue collar workers don't eat lunch in a restaurant, it's way too expansive (and time consuming). They either pack it from home, go to the local grocery/convenience store or maybe hit a fast food place/cheap take away.

It might work better in cultures with a more developed eat-out culture like in Asia.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by deathanatos on Sunday November 19, 2023 @04:17PM (#38338150)
I mean, I used to work in SF, in North Beach¹. Fisherman's Wharf is the tourist trap, and it's like right there, and in the years I worked for, never ate there. (I've been there as a tourist though.)

For lunch we'd hike over the hill into little Italy, and there was a decent sandwich shop we'd get lunch at. (Freddy's) Before the hill there was a small asian couple who ran a small shop, they made a good mushroom stew. No idea if they're still in business, though, or what their place was called.

Neither were restaurants … you weren't going to be finding a seat at least inside. There's plenty of seating around SF though, if you know where to look.

¹although Google thinks NB is actually a bit W of where we were.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by llamaInSouth on Sunday November 19, 2023 @04:13PM (#38338098)
around here the police tend to go in restaurants I like (atlanta)
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by hakfoo on Sunday November 19, 2023 @04:16PM (#38338136)
Wouldn't it make sense to use something like Google Maps, filter to the lowest one or two price categories, and go from there?

I'd figure Google Maps, being less explicitly targeted to tourists, would be likely to include reviews and pricing data relative to a local mentality, which might not be so willing to spend tourist prices.

It's easier, I suppose, if you're doing a walking/public transit oriented trip and are in a city-- if you don't like what you see when you close in, just go 50 metres further down the street.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by hgomersall on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:09PM (#38337273)
I've travelled extensively in Europe, it being where I live, using all different strategies. I've never been ripped off. I've been to a hostel from someone we met at the train station in Prague. It was fine and good value. Also similar story at lake Balaton. It turns out protectively selling something is not synonymous with being a scam artist.
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by shortcake27 on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:33PM (#38337547)
Yeah, I’ve also travelled extensively around Europe, west, central, and east, to some of the most touristy cities in the world, and never been ripped off. OK, my current hostel is charging €8.50 for a continental breakfast, so I just go elsewhere. I don’t think it’s a rip if you’re informed of the price and choose to pay - that’s on you.

Unfortunately I have been ripped in SE Asia, and moreso in Central America, where prices were almost never displayed, and I was charged US prices for almost everything.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by crazygringo on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:35PM (#38337570)
You're saying you've never taken a cab for €40 only to discover that locals would only ever pay €10? You've never had a truly terrible meal (pizza that's literally soggy, steak burnt to a crisp) for €40 on a main strip, when a little bit of research would reveal a spectacular meal for €40 that's a 20 min walk away? You've never been promised beach access was included, only to discover there's a €50 surprise resort fee, and they won't let you onto the beach without it?

You've been lucky.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by crazygringo on Sunday November 19, 2023 @04:50PM (#38338585)
You've never had a taxi try to charge you €40 for what a local knows is a €12 ride?
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by hgomersall on Sunday November 19, 2023 @05:06PM (#38338799)
I take as few taxis as possible, so no.
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by bee_rider on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:29PM (#38337492)
If it costs extra to work out a plan that doesn’t “rip you off,” and the easy path is full of “rip offs,” then maybe it is just paying a premium for convenience?
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by izacus on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:36PM (#38336896)
Even as a European I can confidently say that Euronet ATMs are complete, utter scam and they have a tendency to show up in most scammy tourist areas to prey on foreigners.

Even here across southern Europe they always start popping up in areas that usually have other seedy businesses preying on people. Lately they don't even show their brand and colors anymore... only showing foreign languaged "ATM" sign with no bank logo.

Avoid them like the plague.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by paganel on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:19PM (#38337393)
Same goes for Eastern Europe, and I have the same recommendation, avoid them like the plague.

Also (and maybe this only applies for Bucharest, but good to know regardless), avoid changing currency (USD to local RON, in Romania's case) just as you get off the airplane, the exchange rates inside the airport are rip-offs pure and simple. The currency exchange shops inside Bucharest proper are more than decent, though, no rip-offs there.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by Tijdreiziger on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:46PM (#38337725)
I tend to use an ATM inside the train station/airport and decline any DCC (dynamic currency conversion), that way I get my debit card's exchange rate, which I know is reasonable.
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by unflxw on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:15PM (#38336604)
Not all tourists are Americans. I would expect the average person scammed by these ATMs is an European citizen from a different country.

I agree the map kinda sucks, because most of the island of Mallorca is a tourist trap at this point. But you can see how the interior's population centers, like Inca, Sa Pobla and Manacor, have none.

For a better example, as one of the replies to the tweet suggests, check using Google Maps around Barcelona. You can see sixteen of them crowded around Sagrada Familia, for example, and barely any in the mostly-residential neighbourhoods further north.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by orwin on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:31PM (#38336805)
Most Europeans citizens use euros so they won't get 'scammed' by euronet ARMs, as the only 'scam' there is currency conversion (and fees if you use an 'out of network bank', so I think if you are at Boa it should be fine)
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by gpvos on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:41PM (#38336960)
There are still quite a few countries in Europe that don't use the euro, so conversion is an issue there. And most Euronet ATMs have a high surcharge even when drawing euros from a euro account (this may differ per country and location).
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by izacus on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:38PM (#38336916)
That's not true at all, Euronet ATMs will happily add 5€+ to your withdrawal - something (local) bank owned ATMs usually don't.

There's a reason why they got such a bad reputation.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by LargoLasskhyfv on Sunday November 19, 2023 @05:39PM (#38339219)
Yah, well. That's also true for the ATMs in Germany, operated by the 'Sparkasse' (usually big red S) or 'Volksbank/Raiffeisenbank' (usually orange/blue signage) when you want to withdraw cash as customer of the 'Cashgroup' (Deutsche-/Post-/Commerz-/Hypo-Vereinsbank). Hm, k, just 4EUR and 80cents. But still...
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by yieldcrv on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:13PM (#38336583)
they aren't even a scam if the American has a good bank

those ATMs give you a choice on how to do currency conversion and my bank will do withdrawals at spot rate! I check forex and futures charts and I get the same rate.

and other than that just a normal ATM fee the same as I would encounter in the states. some banks reimburse those too.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by gpvos on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:48PM (#38337042)
Most Europeans are used to zero or low ATM fees, at least when no conversion is needed. Our banks don't tend to do the fee and reimbursement dance that I've heard American banks do.

That said, I've noticed that when I withdraw a non-euro currency, my own bank fee has been creeping up and is approaching the conversion rate and fee offered by the ATMs, so maybe I need to change my policy about that in the future.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by deanCommie on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:49PM (#38337050)
Funny I had the opposite perspective - Euronet ATMs being a scam is a very EUROcentric view.

In America and Canada, ALL ATMs are scams with exorbitant fees except for the customers of the bank of that ATM.

The whole "Sorry, we're cash only, but there's an ATM in the back" is ubiquitous.

When I moved to Europe in the mid 2010s I was shocked that I could use my bank card to withdraw cash from any other bank without fees.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by seanmcdirmid on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:27PM (#38337470)
HSBC refunds ATM fees, which is nice since they don’t have many ATMs in North America. Then I realized I can get by without using ATMs at all unless I’m traveling out of country.
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by philwelch on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:21PM (#38337407)
There are plenty of American banks that will reimburse ATM fees. It’s an essential feature IMO.
Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by shortcake27 on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:39PM (#38337633)
In Australia and the UK there are no fees for withdrawing from a bank ATM (independent ATMs can still charge fees).

IMHO this is superior to the bank refunding you. It doesn’t cost the bank $2+ to allow you to access your own money from a different ATM, it’s just rent seeking.

Re:How to identify ugly mass tourism places before you visit... by codedokode on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:28PM (#38337483)
I googled a little and found a Belorussian article [1] that says, that first it is an American company (despite the name), second, it targets tourists, and third, they use DCC (dynamic currency conversion), so that when you want to withdraw euros from account in euros, they do double conversion, e.g. euro -> USD -> euro with very unfavourable exchange rate.

[1] https://www.alfabank.by/about/articles/main/Euronet_DCC_11_0...