Ah thank you, I haven't kept in touch with Duolingo's progression in a few years. While now I see it as more ethical that Duolingo charges for content that they are paying to produce, I still feel like it's slower progression than if everybody could contribute (and those most adept at the language would probably just focus on reviewing PRs)

Disclaimer: I work for Duolingo, all opinions are my own and not those of my employer, etc.

Part of the reason that content is slower to produce now is just that the standards are much higher. Internally we draw a distinction between the old volunteer-contributed content and the new content which is aligned to CEFR guidelines for how languages should actually be taught. Aligning content like this is not only more expensive but also requires more coordination and oversight from domain experts compared to previous methods.

Thanks for the additional context.

I love HN for little nuggets of explanation like this.

Anecdotally, I am having a much better time with Duolingo since the last time I tried around 2018 - the changes to be properly made courses in line with CEFR is actually resulting in better learning.

Interesting. I thought part of the duo lingo magic was that it didn’t follow the beaten path for language acquisition.

What made you as a company change your mind?

Pretty sure it's to sell proficiency certificates, i.e. https://englishtest.duolingo.com/applicants Established institutions are more likely to accept Duolingo as equivalent to traditional language education if they follow the same standards.

Thank you for the insider insight, HN is a great community space.

I just started the Japanese course recently and was trying to figure out why a bunch of the criticism I read of Duolingo's course seemed irrelevant or inapplicable. I guess this pivot explains why to some degree.

When the Japanese course first came out it was of low quality, very short with kanji not being taught and even being mispronounced. It seems to have improved over time. I especially like the Stories feature.

Some random comments on Duolingo:

I honestly don't see the point of following CEFR for an app like Duolingo.

Professional and GOOD teachers, that love to teach and did that for several years, know how to teach a language. THey don't need to follow something such as CEFR to know if they do well and what is interesting to teach and in which order.

I find it more important to make interesting lectures which do not follow a standardized curriculum. When someone is learning a language in this way will naturally go toward a CEFR based courses if needed afterward, with a big head start and only when he feels ready.

Also, not allowing to see 'already seen' vocabulary is a very strange move for an app, I guess it's for preventing having the vocab in a app like anki which makes duolingo less useful, but still, even if I don't use such app, having to screenshot all the time to have my vocab is a total pain.

Finally, the app doesn't seem to understand which words/sentences you already know and master and clearly do not need to see for the 400time instead of new vocabulary. Even having maximum points all the time and very fast will usually result in the same vocab shown again and again. It seems like an almost basic statistical problem, so I don't get why it's not fixed.

Also, some vocab is very strange, for example using 'es tut mir leid' in German to just say 'I'm sorry' feels like the content is automatically generated instead of having a linguist or even a German behind.

I'm sure a million people have asked. But whats the reason for no firefox support with microphones? Is it a Duo thing or Firefox? I hate having to have Chrome installed on my desktop just to use a single website.

CEFR or not CERF, Duolingo is clearly designed to be addictive but not effective, because if it were effective people would stop using it.

Duolingo's goals are not the same as mine, and the best thing it does by far is to pretend (and make me believe) that I am learning a language.

More like Duolingo’s decline. They brought their mobile transaction money grubbing “hearts” system to the browser version punishing people for making mistakes (which is the opposite of how you learn a language). But of course you can pay to refill your hearts early!