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Re:The $1.5T Nuclear Weapons Program You've Never Heard Of by landemva on Friday November 17, 2023 @11:41AM (#38305978)
Neither Russia nor Ukraine are NATO members, so NATO has nothing to do with it. US politicians and media distort this.
Re:The $1.5T Nuclear Weapons Program You've Never Heard Of by zzzeek on Friday November 17, 2023 @12:26PM (#38306758)
Ukraine would like to join NATO and perhaps this would have been a rubber-stamp with a non-nuclearized Russia
Re:The $1.5T Nuclear Weapons Program You've Never Heard Of by landemva on Friday November 17, 2023 @01:26PM (#38307727)
I wonder how USA would react to Mexico joining a China military alliance and hosting Chinese troops and weapons? Or maybe Cuba hosting USSR weapons and troops?
Re:The $1.5T Nuclear Weapons Program You've Never Heard Of by zzzeek on Friday November 17, 2023 @03:03PM (#38309225)
It likely would never happen. It doesn't really change any of this equation though
Re:The $1.5T Nuclear Weapons Program You've Never Heard Of by landemva on Friday November 17, 2023 @03:58PM (#38310222)
It did happen. We could learn a lot to apply to future peace by studying history.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/16/1124680429/cuban-missile-cris...

And USSR wanted USA out of neighboring Turkey.

  "Ultimately, Khrushchev received an assurance that the U.S. would not invade Cuba and, in a deal that remained secret for a quarter century, the U.S. also promised to remove its missiles from Turkey."
Re:The $1.5T Nuclear Weapons Program You've Never Heard Of by zzzeek on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:12PM (#38312737)
The cuba part. The Mexico thing, wow I'm going to have to look that one up, I am ignorant on that. I don't see what it has to do with Ukraine wanting to join NATO , I didnt say I want them to join NATO, just it's a fact they've talked about this.
Re:The $1.5T Nuclear Weapons Program You've Never Heard Of by landemva on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:03PM (#38313398)
Well, Mexico was a thought experiment. Cuba hosting nukes for USSR happened as retaliation for USA pressing in to USSR via Turkey, and few are taught that history.

It is reasonable for people and countries to want a buffer zone of security. The western neocons have pressed into Russia for three decades, thus creating problems. USA neocons have been making sport of pressing into Taiwan to aggravate China. Taiwan is non-negotiable for China, so the west would be safer by not putting military bases on an enemy's front door.

Ukraine borders Russia, so of course Russia wants a buffer from aggressors. People in Donbas were Russian and speak Russian, and Ukraine should honor the Minsk agreement and let them vote on their future.

Re:The $1.5T Nuclear Weapons Program You've Never Heard Of by mopsi on Saturday November 18, 2023 @07:35PM (#38326832)
> It is reasonable for people and countries to want a buffer zone of security.

Not at the expense of others. I fail to see why I should give up my freedoms, my language, culture and material possessions, and become a slave for Russians like my parents were in the USSR. How do you justify it? Are Russians a master race?

Re:The $1.5T Nuclear Weapons Program You've Never Heard Of by randomname93857 on Friday November 17, 2023 @04:17PM (#38310485)
So what? there are many things that you intentionally omit in presenting your point, right? Ukraine gave up it nukes (Budapest accord) in exchange for promise that US, Russia will protect Ukraine in case of war (Albeit that was botched) , among other things.
Re:The $1.5T Nuclear Weapons Program You've Never Heard Of by landemva on Friday November 17, 2023 @05:22PM (#38311298)
Ukraine agreed in 2014 to Minsk agreement to allow Donbas to vote on self-sovereignty. Angela Merkel recently said that agreement was just scamming Russia to allow time for west to arm Ukraine. Now even Ukraine cancelled their elections, so their comedian actor stays in power wearing green shirt costumes.