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A comment on The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed how we use language. Parent comment

Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by panzi on Sunday November 05, 2023 @07:24AM (#38150520)
Yeah, but because if analog clocks here in Austria we have no problem to convert back and forth. Are there no analog clocks in Norway?
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Sunday November 05, 2023 @07:29AM (#38150558)
There are, but we just skip the AM/PM part most of time, because it's obvious from context which one you mean. And if it's not you'll just say "... in the morning/afternoon/evening"
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by tomrod on Sunday November 05, 2023 @09:39AM (#38151497)
AM: morning, PM: afternoon/evening
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by tgaj on Sunday November 05, 2023 @09:47AM (#38151585)
Yeah, but this is the problem - why noon is "afternoon"?
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by xen0 on Sunday November 05, 2023 @10:29AM (#38151926)
"12:00:00 + ε" is after noon, but your clock will not show a difference.
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by tomrod on Sunday November 05, 2023 @10:55AM (#38152209)
Clopen intervals in order to have a well-specified time system.

[0] [12:00 PM, 12:00 AM) for after the noon instant

[1] [12:00 AM, 12:00 PM) for before the noon instant

24-hour time is superior to the mod-12 time system in almost every way but mechanical clock faces and soldier shifts under early systems that used sun dials. However, the equivalent question can be asked by a day is a clopen interval of [00:00 current day, 00:00 next day)

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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by eesmith on Sunday November 05, 2023 @12:22PM (#38153216)
In 24-hour time, those are 12-24 and 0-12, respectively. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

A place open 24 hours/day is open in the period 0-24.

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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by tomrod on Sunday November 05, 2023 @02:10PM (#38154500)
I don't follow your point. Are you correcting my point on clopen intervals and mod bases?
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by eesmith on Sunday November 05, 2023 @04:55PM (#38156042)
I think clopen is too complicated in that it expresses ranges that are not practically useful, like (10,11], and it complicates expressing something like "Open 0-24", where your notation appears to require a date.

I think you get the essential utility you want in a 24 hour clock by simply letting 24 (or "24:00:00" when fully written out) be a way to represent the end of the day.

It's also already in use, with examples at https://ioi2023.hu/faq/ , http://www.garageferrarimilazzo.com/en/ , and https://jozsefvaros.hu/english/news-in-the-district/2022/12/... .

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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by yjftsjthsd-h on Sunday November 05, 2023 @12:23PM (#38153237)
Noon isn't really before or after noon, but we want to lump it together with one of them, so we picked the one that made 12:00 and 12:01 go together. (Edit: or for that matter, 12:00:00 and 12:00:01, down to arbitrary closeness, as sibling comment points out)
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by carlosjobim on Sunday November 05, 2023 @07:51AM (#38150700)
People in 24h cultures always use 12 analog hours in normal situations, but the 24h system is needed for situations where it is easy to make a mistake.

When is dinner?

- It's at seven.

When does the flight depart?

- At 19:00

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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by yakubin on Sunday November 05, 2023 @09:03AM (#38151193)
> People in 24h cultures always use 12 analog hours in normal situations

No, we don't. The only person I know who by default uses 12h is my grandmother. Everybody else always uses 24h.

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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by crazygringo on Sunday November 05, 2023 @10:23AM (#38151868)
Do you mind me asking where you are?

All my experience has also been using 12h time in casual situations in 24h countries. I'm curious of a country that doesn't, and whether that's true of the whole region.

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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by yakubin on Sunday November 05, 2023 @10:27AM (#38151911)
Poland. It seems to be more of a generational thing than regional. People over the age of 70 seem to use 12h. Younger ones use 24h.
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by hydrok9 on Sunday November 05, 2023 @10:56AM (#38152220)
Ireland, New Zealand and Finland used 24 casually when I was there
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by TRiG_Ireland on Sunday November 05, 2023 @06:19PM (#38156784)
Ireland uses 24h clock in writing (including casual writing, text messages, etc.), and it wouldn't be at all unusual for personal digital clocks to be set to 24h clock, but I'd be surprised to hear it in speech.
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by carlosjobim on Sunday November 05, 2023 @11:12AM (#38152373)
I've never heard anybody from a 24h country use 24h unless it's regarding situations where there cannot be any ambiguity. You either live in an exceptional place, or interact with exceptional people. World you really say "At fifteen o'clock" instead of "At three o'clock" or "Three in the afternoon"?
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by yakubin on Sunday November 05, 2023 @11:26AM (#38152550)
Yes.
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by neilkk on Sunday November 05, 2023 @11:46AM (#38152797)
You obviously haven't been to France.
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by tgaj on Sunday November 05, 2023 @09:46AM (#38151569)
But it's still not helpful with AM/PM. If I see 12 and it's dark outside then I know it's midnight, otherwise it's noon, and that's what I will say to someone who will ask "what time is it?". I still don't know if it's PM or AM.
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Re:The surprisingly subtle ways Microsoft Word has changed h... by panzi on Sunday November 05, 2023 @12:05PM (#38153007)
Ah right, for that particular time its difficult. Yeah, I have to google that.
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