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Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by fsckboy on Friday November 03, 2023 @01:05AM (#38124742)
so with that explanation in mind

-----------------------------

>whether he had taken a private plane to the Super Bowl—to which Sassoon responded by presenting a photograph of SBF fast asleep in the embrace of a comfy chair on a private jet

Look, if I, an out of shape nerd with no interest in sports, were travelling to a Super Bowl city, to meet various financial big shots who are all there, to also promote my finance-oriented crypto scheme, when a fair percentage of sports venues are called BITCONNECT STADIUM and a fair percentage of athletes are endorsing crypto schemes, AND, I'm running a multi-billion dollar company in Bermuda and I routinely fly private absolutely everywhere....

did I fly a private plane to the superbowl? literally? no, no I didn't. I went in an Escalade.

But I know you wouldn't like that answer, and I don't want to be accused of lying, so let me figure out the spirit of your question. Any analysis tells me that the spirit of your question is to paint me as a bad person. Why is a public servant (prosecutor) conspiring to make me look bad? How about we focus on the facts and not try to paint ugly pictures. You bet I'd roll my eyes and look helpless at that moment.

Then to have everybody here, supposedly a bastion of analytical people, simply take pleasure in making fun of somebody caught in an unfair process, which is a process they would melt in if they were exposed to it, is discouraging.

SBF was guilty, he should be punished, but all you rabble wanting to throw tomatoes at him as they lead him away? Nah, you're just rabbling bullies.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by CoastalCoder on Friday November 03, 2023 @01:20AM (#38124839)
I wonder if you and the other commenters are making different assumptions about his private thoughts during testimony.

It sounds like you think he might be trying to be honest and forthright, but his intentions are lost in translation.

Whereas the other commenters think it's more likely that he was being obstructionist?

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by fsckboy on Friday November 03, 2023 @02:48AM (#38125341)
>It sounds like you think he might be trying to be honest and forthright, but his intentions are lost in translation. Whereas the other commenters think it's more likely that he was being obstructionist?

I'm not thinking it's all one way or the other.

A person who is lying/willing to lie will still take every opportunity to tell the truth if it makes him look good.

Separately, an autistic person has trouble understanding and being understood, and then emotions flare and the autistic person is more disconnected.

His autistic answers to questions can look evasive, but they are not necessarily, especially if the truth is actually on his side. There will be many questions he is trying to answer honestly because the truth is on his side, but his awkwardness looks evasive.

He may simultaneously have a motive and willingness to also be evasive and lie.

And then a layer of he-said-she-said, there are always two sides to a story and how to remember and tell it, and the truth lies in the middle (with the lies? hahaha)

If the defendent is entitled to the benefit of the doubt, I am pointing out that much of what people are making great sport of here can be interpreted as reasonable doubt. But at the same time, I don't doubt that there was a strong case against him overall, and he was guilty.

To use a blunt analogy, to me I'm hearing people saying "look at that lying cheating wop eat spaghetti on his private plane and as his last meal!" (I chose Italian because I am) Well, that lying cheating Italian might be named Ponzi (the other reason I chose Italian) and he deserves to go to jail, but it's this bystander jeering that sounds bad to me, that type of attitude can be turned against any one of us.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by spuz on Friday November 03, 2023 @03:22AM (#38125535)
I agree with you that it's unfair to laugh at what might be Sam's genuine attempts to be honest when answering a question. I appreciate your account of your own experience. The only thing I would disagree with is that there is any kind of "correct" or "normie" answer to questions made by a prosecutor during cross examination. If they are good at their job then they will only ever ask questions that they already know the answer to. The only hope you have in that case is that the judge will allow you to speak beyond what the prosecutor has asked about. I don't think it matters whether you're autistic or normie as you put it. Like you say, most people here would crumble in that position.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by bmitc on Friday November 03, 2023 @03:27AM (#38125574)
The problem with your description is that he only acts like that when he is questioned about criminal and unethical acts he has committed lr when someone challenges him. He acts completely different when he's treated as the smartest guy in the room.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by misnome on Friday November 03, 2023 @04:02AM (#38125787)
e.g. when being asked questions in this trial by the defense
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by fsckboy on Friday November 03, 2023 @04:59AM (#38126152)
I was eager and willing to watch the whole thing, but it isn't available.

When I read the 2nd hand accounts of it, all I see are people making fun of a person who I see as autistic. That has made me not even read up on all the 2nd hand accounts, so I can't draw the more sweeping generalizations that you feel comfortable making. mea culpa

and any person is going to be more uncomfortable when questioned about the illegal parts. I'm simply saying that will exaggerate the autism experience and make him look extra guilty compared to a smooth talking guilty huckster.

I do believe he's guilty.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by bmitc on Friday November 03, 2023 @08:15AM (#38127571)
I didn't make any generalizations, much less sweeping ones. His behavior on the stand and in interviews is an objective fact.

I'm not a medical professional, but he actually doesn't seem autistic to me. For one, he is rather socially and emotionally manipulative.

One needs to also remember that he is a drug addict. I'm sure it hasn't been easy being in jail becuase of that.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by bmitc on Friday November 03, 2023 @04:55PM (#38134881)
Also, you can find transcripts from the trial. I'm not sure if there are official sources that anyone has access to, but here's one I found from his October 31 testimony: https://blog.bitmex.com/sam-bankman-fried-trial-transcript-3...
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by CoastalCoder on Friday November 03, 2023 @09:48AM (#38128707)
Sorry if I'm just being dense, but could you clarify which parts of other comments you see as jeering?

(FWIW, I agree with pretty much the rest of your points.)

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by vkou on Friday November 03, 2023 @01:54AM (#38125040)
SBF chose to make his character a part of his defense ("Whoopsie daisies I'm just an incompetent nerd who likes muffins and didn't know I was doing anything wrong"), which makes character attacks like that fair game against him for the prosecution.

This is precisely why you shut up, and plead the fifth. You'll be eviscerated on cross-examination when you don't.

Although in his case, he probably should have pled guilty, and begged for mercy, instead.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by defen on Friday November 03, 2023 @02:58AM (#38125392)
"Did you fly on a private plane to an airport 4.5 miles away from the location of the Super Bowl, the day before the Super Bowl" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by hef19898 on Friday November 03, 2023 @03:55AM (#38125742)
It woupd make a great follow-up question to the proposed answer of "no, I took an Escalade to the Super Bowl" so.

Splitting hairs over definitions and genie-like interpretations of what sentences mean isn't smart, it's annoying most of the time.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by cedilla on Friday November 03, 2023 @03:52AM (#38125715)
> . Any analysis tells me that the spirit of your question is to paint me as a bad person

This is why you never should talk about being "the smartest person in the room". Because if you're that kind of person, you will inevitably try to show your genius work, and it will always be severely lacking.

I'm sorry, but you were not the smartest person in the room. You fail to understand what a prosecutor does and why, and you fail to understand what makes good testimony.

Maybe you had the highest amount of raw brain power in the court room, but with no intellectual curiosity or humility, that's like running the fastest CPU with no cooling on an unstable power supply.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by fsckboy on Friday November 03, 2023 @04:38AM (#38126014)
I wrote a lot of substantive stuff, and your inability to get past one small opinion I voiced illustrates what I was talking about. Take in the totality of what I said, process it, say something intelligent about all of it, show you followed the thread; don't simply look for some little thing I said that you can then crow about.

I have no intellectual curiosity? omg you are pathetic. I'm the only person in that situation (including the attorneys) who had read all the of the voluminous bylaws and researched every aspect of the parts that I did not understand because IANAL. And I did all that way before any of this dispute came up, simply because I am intellectually curious. I was the previous President, I knew all the players, I know what they read and did not read.

When the disputes came up, I knew how the rules dictated they be handled. Other shareholders came to me and asked for my help because they knew I knew. Smarter people than you will always outfox you by knowing the rules better than you. It's more gentlemanly for you to take your L than to look for some tiny thing to crow about that is essentially off topic.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by cedilla on Friday November 03, 2023 @04:50AM (#38126082)
This has gotten out of scope for this forum. But I will make one last observation: that grandstanding does not make the point you think it does.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by fsckboy on Friday November 03, 2023 @04:55AM (#38126129)
I had edited my comment to additionally point out how poorly you made your argument, I just want to make sure you don't miss it.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by davidgerard on Friday November 03, 2023 @05:54AM (#38126488)
You really are not demonstrating here what you think you're demonstrating.
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by Timshel on Friday November 03, 2023 @04:50AM (#38126086)
You do realize that with this comment you just reinforced the parent point ?
Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by freetanga on Friday November 03, 2023 @04:16AM (#38125863)
“Where does the Super Bowl even begins? In the parking lot? Then I drove there. In the seat? Then I walked there. Was I ever there? Who knows, what is a person other than an ever changing cloud of electrons and protons moving, spinning and decaying at amazing rate… where does my butt ends and the seat begin?…” if you roll Pedantic for 20/20

- Is the system rigged? Yes. - Are laws written by mediocre people hence full of loopholes? Yes. - Are most people in the Justice system mediocre? Yes, to the best of my knowledge your honor. - Is Justice != Law application? Yes, greatest marketing scam calling it Justice Department. - Is SBF a scammer that had a chip on his shoulder and got rich off other peoples money? All signs point to yes. - Does he deserved to be in jail? In SBF words, “Yep”.

Mate, I don’t question your intellect or memory, surely you are God - even in a forum where there is no lack of bright people - but your emotional intelligence is severely handicapped, so much that the “functional” part of your self description falls into doubt. You come across as the Simpsons comic store guy. Chill.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by enimodas on Friday November 03, 2023 @08:45AM (#38127883)
>Are laws written by mediocre people hence full of loopholes?

Guy once told me his job was to write some law in Spain, or for the EU, or somewhere in between. He submits his writings to his bosses, who tell him (paraphrased): "it's too clear, too watertight. Go back and make it more ambiguous." So he did.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by bitcurious on Friday November 03, 2023 @10:21AM (#38129160)
Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing - laws should allow for some level of ambiguity, and should be written for outcomes. The enforcement is a negotiation between agents bound by the law and agents tasked with upholding the law.

It’s like hiring a web design firm and then showing up with a complete mockup - give them room to work.

Re:Sam Bankman-Fried found guilty on all charges by fsckboy on Friday November 03, 2023 @01:20PM (#38131905)
It's weird that I tell a story with a point:

smart autistic people have trouble communicating with people who are not precise in a venue which pretends to insist on precision, and here's a vivid example showing how innocent things can go wrong

and you think afterward you need to reiterate the attitude people have that triggered me to write in the first place. Yes, I know. Now read my story, it's a response to what you said, with details that can be discussed which you've ignored, details you should quote as a response rather than just telling me what I already know.

I didn't say I was the smartest person in the room to imply that "everybody should listen to me". I said it to ensure the reader that the troubles that ensued in the story were not due to me being unable to follow what was going on. I followed it, it made no sense without context that they were denying me. It would make no sense to anybody paying attention, but clarification was not possible.

But nowhere in your vast and vaunted store of EQ-that-I-am-lacking do you find any empathy for me and my experience. You just have the urge to tell me I'm wrong, it's my fault, etc. I'm submitting your response as further evidence of my point.